McCutchen vs. Dragon Wings

Mike M,
While Chuck is correct I don't believe Dad will do that. You might want to give him a call after Mentone. I would test fly them first.
 
Reason(s)?

Reason(s)?

Chris, there are several reasons starting with the fact that over a 48 hour period I lost 100% of my hearing in my right ear in 1964. This was one week after I had made my initial contact with a Long Beach CA. flight school. I was advised by my doctor at that time to not fly in anything but commercial aircraft. The thought at the time was that a sudden change in air pressure could damage a person's ears and I only had one left and it wasn't the best. That thinking has changed so that is not a problem now.

However I've since lost considerable hearing in my left ear to the point that without my hearing aide it is very difficult to communicate. The two hearing losses are unrelated. The doctors at the House Institute in CA. were never able to determine exactly what caused the first event. The problem with the one ear I have that still works is that I have inner ear autoimmune disease. This means that my immune system sees my inner ear (the cochlea) as a threat and tries to destroy it. I take a steroid to suppress the immune system and to slow up the attack. Eventually I'll probably need a cochlea implant.

In a quiet environment my hearing isn't much of a problem but in a noisy one like a small aircraft then it is next to insurmountable. I've tried to train in tandem trainers and I can't understand what is being said over the intercom so the instructors wisely make a decision to stop the training. I did manage to get some training with Steve Graves in his SXS Marchetti while I was doing a personal evaluation of my ability to fly. I enjoyed it and felt comfortable but I can't pass a third class med so a PPL is out of the question. The only possibilities for me are ultralight and maybe Sport Pilot.

There is the remote possibility of using an in ear device in conjunction with anti-noise circuitry that gets its signal from a loop worn around the neck. I use a similar device with my cell phone to feed the telecoil on my hearing aide. This device is used in the entertainment industry by camera men and others. In fact it was a former PRA chapter member in that business who made me aware of it. While we were discussing it, it dawned on us that such a setup might be beneficial to normal hearing folks. The in ear device would have to be custom made just like a hearing aide mold but there would be no large ear muffs and the neck loop could be easily attached inside a helmet. It should be much more convenient and comfortable to wear and possibly enhance a pilots understanding. I have this on my to do list and hope to eventually do some serious investigation. If some one else wants to investigate then they can start here. http://www.comtek.com/IFBCueing/ifbcueing.html

There are other reasons that I stated in a reply to Chuck Irby. See http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=17655&page=2&pp=15

You asked, Chuck asked so now if anyone asks in the future all I have to do is refer them to these two posts!
 
Sorry to read about your hearing, but with your knowledge I'm sure you could do it easily. I would certainly go for a heck of alot of rides. I think a passenger can tell alot about different machines without actually taking the stick.
 
TEST FLIGHT RESULTS FROM BLADE SWAP:

I flew my A/C with the DW blades and made the following notes in order to compare how the same machine flies with the McCutchens:
rotor rpm--- 330-340
time to climb to 1000ft.----2 min 10 sec @50 mph
speed at 6000rpm, level flight-----65mph

And 15 minutes later I flew with the McCutchens:
rotor rpm----355-360
time to climb to 1000ft.-----2 min @50 mph
speed at 6000rpm, level flight----70mph

Both blades are 23ft, temp was 90-92 degrees with a light north wind. Climb was made from a flying start just above the runway at 50mph to 1000ft. Only one climb was done so the result is subject to more error than if I had done several and averaged them. More stick shake was noted with the McCutchens.

It was very obvious right after liftoff that there was not much difference in the blades as far as climb rate. The McCutchens turn 20-25 rpm faster to fly the same machine.
 
I put the DW blades on the Benson a few minutes after I did the A/C test. I do not have a rotor tach or altimeter on the Benson.

Takeoff and climb felt about the same. I had no trouble with blade flapping as I was concerned the electric prerotator would not spin the DW's fast enough. The was quite a bit more shake with the DW's than with the McCutchen's. With the lighter blade I was expecting a little more performance and I may be getting a better climb rate but until I do a time to climb I cannot be sure. I can say absolutely that there is very little difference in the blades. I did not do a speed test.
 
Great Mike. That is the sort of info that I enjoy.

Aussie Paul.
 
Mike M,
That makes interesting reading. As you quite correctly stated, you would have to average several runs to get an accurate result. However, your initial test in that flight regeme and weight configuration suggest that the McCutcheons are a more efficient blade, especially considering that they were carrying extra weight.
This goes against popularly held belief.
 
Tim and All,
As I stated in previous post on this topic, the possiblility of a heavier blade performing better than lighter blades is what we are hoping for with the heavier Patroney blades on Butterfly/Monarchs Down Under. We should have that data soon, Allan's not far off getting into the air.
regards
Mitch.
 
Progress sounds exciting!!!!

Progress sounds exciting!!!!

It's not the weight of the blades for normal flight performance Greg, it is the airfoil section and twist etc that counts. I believe, rightly or wrongly, the weight will only change the ease of landing and the rough air ride, not the climb or cruise performance.



Aussie Paul.:)
 
I'd agree with that Paul. What we are talking about is how a heavier Patroney 8H12 composite profile blade will perform against 18-19lbs lighter DW's, given that weight is the issue and that as Tim said, the McCutchen example seems to fly in the face of popularly held beliefs.

Regards.
Mitch
 
Greg,Tim and all, the Patroneys fly slightly better than McCuchens, and due to the 1/4 chord balancing difference, Patroney blades are pitch stable and don't shake.

So all Patroney blades have to do now, is outperform the SC blades!!!!!, and that we will know by the end of the year when I get to compare them.

Geez, I live up to my "stirrer and troublemaker" signature, don't I?

Aussie Paul.:)
 
I messed up!! only a little bit though!!!!

I messed up!! only a little bit though!!!!

Geez!!! I was a little bit incorrect. I was not taking into acount the difference in gross weight!!!! :eek:

Aussie Paul. :)
 
Patroney Blades

Patroney Blades

Hey Paul, sorry to tell you but the set of 28 ft of Patroneys I received vibrated so badly that they scared me . Plenty of lift but what a shake. !! Swapped them for 27 ft 6 in tapered and twisted which were as smooth as silk but didnt lift as well at full gross weight[as compared to 27 ft alloys.[ RR's] but flew very well at half fuel load. Defiantely quicker in indicated airspeed and very stable. Rob tried to tell me that the starter motor [pre rotator ] was the cause of the shake but I dont think so !! :(
Big thing I noticed [alloys versus glass] is that the glass rotors dont perform as well when the leading edge is dirty [bugs etc]
The 27 alloys rev at 350 versus 320 /315 for the Patroneys 27 ft 6in.
Brian
 
Wot are these Sport copter blades??Are they extruded alum.[same as Jef's AKs.]
 
They're bonded aluminum with a spar, Birdy. First-class quality, an extremely smooth ride and they are the cat's-ass. I love 'em.
 
Ken,
How well do the SportCopter blades stack up against Ernie's Dragon Wings, both weight- and performance-wise? I've heard great things about both. I'm building a Part 103 stock GyroBee with a (probably) Wunderlich prerotator. Since weight is an issue, would Vanek's SportRotors put me over the limit that you're aware?

Thank you.

Respectfully,
Brian Jackson
 
Steve,
Funny we haven't noticed a decrese in sales. If anything Sport Copter has boosted our sales. Most people are surprised to find out we ship our blades as soon as we verify funds. The price difference does not hurt either. I don't want to make this we're better than they are war of words. There seems to be room both for DW's and SR's. I personally have never flown a set of SR's but then why would I.
 
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Brian, I can't compare DWs and SCs in any way. Ernie doesn't make rotors for the heavier RAFs and Sparrowhawks. I will say this; Reis Evans has a Brock or Bensen gyro and used to have Brock blades on it. He switched to DWs and he is ecstatic over the increase in performance. I also watched the DWs rotate up over 100 rrpm with just a gentle push from Reis and a slightly brisk wind did the rest.
 
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