Marty Weaver

Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
129
Location
manvel,texas
Aircraft
46 taylorcraft/46 chief/dominator/Raf
Total Flight Time
800-with 150 in gyros
Chuter-get real---I am refering to All the crapy threads about the rehassing of this subject and you know it!!! I will add you to the Jerk list---And To CHUCK--it would be great to chat with the King Jerk!!!If you don't trust your Doctor you have a choice to get another--it is the same with fixed wing instructors and "gyro instructors"---so lay off these guys!!!Chuck--"specific" my childish crotch will you!!! LC--"EDIT"--sorry Chuter-thought you were pulling my chain but realized I confused you with C's group---was refering to the Chucks' group---not CFIs"--You have been "de-jerked"-my apologies--LC
 
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Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
129
Location
manvel,texas
Aircraft
46 taylorcraft/46 chief/dominator/Raf
Total Flight Time
800-with 150 in gyros
Passin'-don't feel bad-we can't all have genius IQs like Up-Chuck--I believe the only intercourse he gets is social--this is probably why he leads the Jerk list---Try cash Chuck------I think we need a re-vote by the "RAF" Super Delegates--LC
 

chuter

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
1,731
Location
Piedmont, OK
Aircraft
original design tractor gyro
Chuter-get real---I am refering to All the crapy threads about the rehassing of this subject and you know it!!!
So...... you have nothing specific to add to the thread so you thought you'd just shotgun some general accusatory crap and see if it sticks........
 

Heron

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
7,520
Location
Bauru - Sao Paulo - Brasil
Aircraft
Golden Butterfly
Total Flight Time
7.5 h.
1 - If I had the power I would ground them all . . .
2 - what will kill the sport is ignorance and stupidity, not talking about it . . .
3 - A soldier (of all people) should know that it will harm his enemy out of conviction not rage or hate.
4 - Jvitable is right he has the best of both worlds a great ship and a modified one that can help avoiding his early demise. (which says volumes about the other ships)
5 - As long as we feel there are people in doubt we will start and participate in threads about this subject . . .and you don´t hold your breath waiting for any of us to quit soon!
That´s all folks!
Heron
 

Steve McGowan

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
2,517
Location
Macon Ga.
How honorable do you believe it to be to kill people as a result, at least in part from ignorance, stupidity and disinformation?

Your concept of honor is to sweep it under the rug?
You have called Marty Weaver, and Bill Parson's killers,, are you totally outta your mind old man?

You think that the hazards of flying gyro's isn't taught to those attempting to fly gyro's..

teaching a kid to ride a bicycle, then he breaks his neck jumping it off a building... Now you want to blame the person that taught the kid to ride..and even the bicycle company...

It's like telling you to take a bath, because you stink,,

Your GROWN, you don't need to be told.

If you keep teasing a dog , he will bite..
 

Harry_S.

Gold Supporter
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
5,649
Location
Ocala, Florida
Aircraft
RAF2000
Total Flight Time
2000+ hrs.
.


I don?t expect a single RAF cultist will read this; to do so would be an act of heresy. Their minds are closed.


I have :noidea: for your ref. above, to the Article that followed?!

RAF pilots are of the same genre as all other gyro pilots and I believe most all pilots understand the rotor/control function of your ref. Article.

I believe you have a bad obsession with those three letters "RAF" and...


Cheers :)
 

chuter

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
1,731
Location
Piedmont, OK
Aircraft
original design tractor gyro
Steve,

What if the bicycle instructor had told the student that jumping off a building is normal and can be done safely with enough training.....would that be ok?

Then when the kid dies the instructor says ”he didn't have enough training"..........?

I don't think anyone is questioning any CFI's devotion to safe training; it's just that the idea of what is "normal" gyro behaviour needs to change.

The pilot having to correct for constant pitch bobbing should not be considered normal any more than jumping a bike off a building.

You guys are great instructors already; just add to your understanding a little bit and we could have a new era in our sport.

See if Chuck will sit down with you for an hour, one-on-one, and explain this stuff to you, and see if it doesn't make sense.
 

C. Beaty

Gold Supporter
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
9,764
Location
Florida
You have called Marty Weaver, and Bill Parson's killers,, are you totally outta your mind old man?

You think that the hazards of flying gyro's isn't taught to those attempting to fly gyro's..

teaching a kid to ride a bicycle, then he breaks his neck jumping it off a building... Now you want to blame the person that taught the kid to ride..and even the bicycle company...

It's like telling you to take a bath, because you stink,,

Your GROWN, you don't need to be told.

If you keep teasing a dog , he will bite..
It is my belief, Steve, that had Dan Dase trained with Ron Menzie instead of with Martin Weaver, he would still be amongst the living.

Please read Mr. Weaver’s post #17 on this thread and give me your assessment of it:

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10739&page=2
 
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Steve McGowan

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
2,517
Location
Macon Ga.
Steve,

What if the bicycle instructor had told the student that jumping off a building is normal and can be done safely with enough training.....would that be ok?

Then when the kid dies the instructor says ”he didn't have enough training"..........?

I don't think anyone is questioning any CFI's devotion to safe training; it's just that the idea of what is "normal" gyro behaviour needs to change.

The pilot having to correct for constant pitch bobbing should not be considered normal any more than jumping a bike off a building.

You guys are great instructors already; just add to your understanding a little bit and we could have a new era in our sport.

See if Chuck will sit down with you for an hour, one-on-one, and explain this stuff to you, and see if it doesn't make sense.
I am very selective about the company I keep Chuter,,No Dopers, Thieves, or women trying to piss they're husbands or boyfriends off.

students also come into that same selection,, but not in a way to Bitch Slap them because you/I think they don't do something as I want them to. The gyro you have shown here will kill you just as fast as an RAF..

and as far as the bobbing etc..

All ya gotta do is get in the machine,, show me what you think isn't done.
Ya might be surprised to find out that it is a criteria to instruct PIO, PPO and emergency procedures in all makes of gyro's.

Chuck,, if a medi-flight was called in to carry you to the hospital,,
Marty Weaver could very well be the pilot flying it. He would do his job and get you to the hospital,, nomatter what you think of him..Just as he did his job instructing..

Before I change my way of thinking and training in my gyro's I will be more than happy to burn them.. I built and passed all the FAA requirements for safe training,, and until either of you/I, or anyone else can question standards, you must first get your happy asses in the machine and fly with an appropriate catagory and class instructor or examiner.

And as I have previously said,,,,,I have the last word on whom or what I put into the seat...

I have flown with instructed by,,,
Marty Weaver, Bill Parson's, Jim Logan, Duane Hunn, Ron Menzie,
Dave Prater, Ken Brock, Marion Springer, Jim Mayfield, Terry Brant and Wing Commander Wallis.
As well as instructed with "ALL 3" of the FAA Safety gyro Inspectors.

Marty did it correctly, nomatter what you think, I/he/WE cannott control human nature, to do as you/they wish..

No Thanks Chuck,,,,,
I trust the people I've mentioned.. But NOT YOU !!
 

C. Beaty

Gold Supporter
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
9,764
Location
Florida
Steve, allow me to compliment Debbie (do I have her name right?) on her spelling, grammar and cogency when she writes your posts.

I assume you’ve had the time to read Mr. Weaver’s post that I referred to above. What do you think?

Do you agree that a gyro is WSC device?

Do you agree that it dangles from the teeter bolt like a powered parachute?

Do you agree that the propeller thrust line to CG location is irrelevant?

That it only controls the angle of impact with the ground when the rotor is unloaded?
 

animal

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
5,933
Location
Deleon Springs Florida.
Aircraft
Hillman Hornet N8063D
you can argue till your blue in the face, what does it matter? it's not going to change anything. I am just Glad people like Steve has taken the time and expense to become a Gyro CFI.

If you are so concerned about proper training Chuck,then do us all a favor and become a CFI. you have alot of knowlage. so instead of wasteing it here, why not do what it takes to be a CFI. Lord knows this sport can use more CFI's.
Again I thank Steve for what he is doing. no matter what he does or does not Beleive he has trained many students and trained them well.
so just leave it at that.

This thread is not about Steve or what he does or does not beleive, it is about Marty Weaver.
 

chuter

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
1,731
Location
Piedmont, OK
Aircraft
original design tractor gyro
Steve, you said,
The gyro you have shown here will kill you just as fast as an RAF..
The odds of surviving a flight in my gyro are more in my favor than when flying a STOCK RAF, or any other HTL gyro with no stab.

Please get someone you trust to explain this stuff.

No body is questioning whether you teach by the accepted FAA standards; we all know you take pride in doing a good job and training safe pilots.

Just add a little bit to your knowledge base and you can lead guys like Marty, Duane Hunn, and Jim Logan into a better time. For all of us.

Please.
 
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Chuck_Ellsworth

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
1,695
Location
Vancouver Island
What I can not understand about the flight instructors in the Gyroplane sector of flight training is how there can be such a wide difference in their teaching methods.

I have been instructing since 1957 when I first received my fixed wing instructors license.

From that time to now there was never a time when I could have taken an airplane and loaded it beyond the C of G limits and proceeded to instruct in it and tell my students that the machine is safe that way as long as you let me teach you how to fly it with an out of envelope aft C of G.

My license to teach would be cancelled and I would be fined for teaching such rubbish.

Here we have some Gyroplane instructors who claim that you can overcome the instability of some gyros through instruction.

So the real answer has to be these instructors are correct in stating that some gyros and specifically the stock RAF2000 are not unstable and they will not depart controlled flight as long as you get proper training.

Obviously Steve believes that this kind of instructing mind set is O.K., it must be because a former FAA employee says it is.

So I guess Chuck Beaty and several other people here are wrong regarding the physics and aerodynamics of gyroplanes.
 

Heron

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
7,520
Location
Bauru - Sao Paulo - Brasil
Aircraft
Golden Butterfly
Total Flight Time
7.5 h.
Ah ah!! Stroke of genius . . .found the guilty one . . .Juan De La Cierva . . .
He should become a CFI first and never had time to think up this contraption . . .
Bad Juan!!!
Heron
Animal . . .I have something for ya . . ."Nigger please!" :eek:
 

C. Beaty

Gold Supporter
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
9,764
Location
Florida
The problem is mostly, Chuck E., that homebuilt gyroplanes are such a tiny fringe area (some would say lunatic fringe) of general aviation, that no meaningful standards have ever been devised. And there are no type certificated gyroplanes in production.

Greg Gremminger has made an effort to bring some sanity to this chaos but the FAA of necessity must devote their resources to the areas that affect the most people; the airlines.

Who within the FAA would know that dangle angle has nothing to do with CG? Martin Weaver didn’t and he was at one time their “expert.”
 
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