Magni M24 vs. Calidus vs. Cavalon

PTKay

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RTS engine includes components not manufactured by Rotax,
so it is obvious, that the warranty for the whole package must come
from Celier Aviation.

Rotax "approved" the RTS in the sense of allowing the modification
to their original 912 engine by adding 914 gearbox and turbo.

If they wouldn't allow it, they wouldn't sell the engines to CA,
knowing exactly, what they will do with them.

This way, or another, there is a warranty on the RTS engine
and it has a very good reliability record.
 

Learjet

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RTS engine includes components not manufactured by Rotax,
so it is obvious, that the warranty for the whole package must come
from Celier Aviation.

Rotax "approved" the RTS in the sense of allowing the modification
to their original 912 engine by adding 914 gearbox and turbo.

If they wouldn't allow it, they wouldn't sell the engines to CA,
knowing exactly, what they will do with them.

This way, or another, there is a warranty on the RTS engine
and it has a very good reliability record.

PTKay, the factory warranteed Rotax engines include plenty of components not manufactured by Rotax, including the Garrett turbocharger on the 914UL. To state that Rotax, by having warranteed its product with a factory fitted Garrett turbo, somehow implies that the aftermarket fitment of a Mitsubishi (or any other) turbo to one of their engines is thus automatically "approved" is rather misleading. Your logic that by selling Rotax engines to someone automatically translates into their consent and approval for aftermarket modification is altogether flawed. There is a fundamental difference between Rotax approving an aftermarket mod to their engine, and the party doing the aftermarket mod offering their own warranty because Rotax refuses to approve the mod. To be clear then, it would appear that the RST mod is still to date NOT Rotax factory approved or covered by Rotax warranty. You are a passionate advocate of the Xenon, and I respect that, but to state that their RST mod is Rotax approved is perhaps inadvertently stretching the "sales talk" just little to far :)
 
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ventana7

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For the 10 Xenons I previously imported into the US Lockwood agreed to provide warranty service for any element they deemed to fail unrelated to the the turbo. Any element they deemed to fail related to the turbo would not be covered. This was sesveral years ago but I do not think anything has changed for the US Xenons.
 

PTKay

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Dave, maybe the situation of Xenon in South Africa is different than in the US
(as Rob stated it) or in Europe (a.f.a.I.k.).

Maybe your being passionate advocate of Magni slightly biases your
view of the case. :)
 
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May i place a more precise answer ?

The Rotax 912 UL modified to turbo, commercially named RST is under CAA : CA 912 ULT registered. This is fully certified, cumulated more than 40 000 hours today, reliability close 100 %, not Rotax factory approved, by covered under warranty by Rotax Poland and us. For the little story, Rotax have a few years ago proposed us to buy the our mod concept... but the proposal was so low compare to what we invested on it, that we refused. End of the story.
Today, this engine is our best seller...it simply outpasses the 914 in all aspects. Customer choice. That speaks.
The Xenon RT (914) is today removed from our catalogue.
To all, please check the latest news from our website.
New models, new performaces, new options, new prices.
Thanks for your attention.
 

Learjet

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Thank you for the clarification Raphael, the Xenon owners I know in South Africa have only had positive things to say about the Rotax RST mod and they certainly seem very happy with it's performance.
 

Hugh Randall

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I have flown the Cavalon and sat in the Arrow and the M24. The Arrow is indeed impressive and the M24 has the typical Magni simplicity. However I have placed an order for a Cavalon. There are several reasons for this.
1) Autogyrow have more experience in building gyros than Arrow.
2) I liked the side by side seating and dual control system of the Cavalon.
3) The space in the Cavalon is far superior to the 24 and the Arrow
4) The door configuration on the Cavalonis better and safer than the 24 and the are easily removable.

I found the Cavalon very easy to fly and land. Take off will take a little getting used to because the nose jumps up very quickly which cuts visibility. It trims out beautifully and the seats are A380 Business class equivalent! I did my first ever engine off landing in the Cavalon! Found it easy to handle. Glide approaches appear to be SOP but am awaiting clarity in this regard.

I have some concerns though.
1) the recent unexplained fatal Cavalon crash and burn on landing.
2) complaints on the web about service from Autorgyro.
3) issues with rotor blades
4) production and delivery delays.
5) I have paid the 50% deposit and promised delivery end Nov - holding thumbs.

I understand they have confirmed orders for 70 Cavalons currently!

Hugh
 

aerobatic

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Thanks a lot for the info, and the detailed tips, should I decide on the Calidus they will be very helpful.
Glad to hear that something was done about the blades.

I do fly in fairly warm weather, I was certainly thinking that the sun roof would be great, I was also thinking of getting the summer canopy with the side cut-outs, any experience with that one?

I own a Calidus with the summer canopy. It's great when it's hot and doesn't affect the aerodynamic of the gyro in flight except for the noise when you cruise fast. The opening are wide enough so it won't be a problem to get outside off the Calidus if you roll on the side.

I also have the standard canopy for winter flying. I didn't choose the sunroof option because visibility was one of my first criteria when I switched for a FW biplane to an autogyro. A tinted sunroof would be a good choice if that option was available...

Maher
 
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PTKay

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However I have placed an order for a Cavalon.

You are a brave man.
There are few more than 10 Cavalons flying at the moment,
out of which one already crashed fatally.

There are over 130 Xenons and 50-60 M24 flying.

I have some concerns though.
1) the recent unexplained fatal Cavalon crash and burn on landing.
2) complaints on the web about service from Autorgyro.
3) issues with rotor blades
4) production and delivery delays.
5) I have paid the 50% deposit and promised delivery end Nov - holding thumbs.
I would suggest you start a separate thread with those questions,
Maybe someone knowledgeable will chime in.

I understand they have confirmed orders for 70 Cavalons currently!
That's what they claim.
Delivered were not many yet...
 

BrianEsq

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I have some concerns though.
1) the recent unexplained fatal Cavalon crash and burn on landing.
2) complaints on the web about service from Autorgyro.
3) issues with rotor blades
4) production and delivery delays.
5) I have paid the 50% deposit and promised delivery end Nov - holding thumbs.

Hugh

I'm currently looking at the same options but your reasons 1-4 are enough for me to look a little closer at the M24. I would like to have the Xenon G4 as an option as well but Canada might not see those for years.
 

Steve_UK

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I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
Hi


The highest known production number for a Cavalon that I've seen so far is #029 - this was exhibited at the Aero 2012 trade show in April 2012.


Just one registered in the UK so far.


Cheers

Steve
 

HydroGyroNut

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Flew the Calidus and was quite impressed with the quality of production. Seems like the company has resolved some of the previous problems related to stick shake and others..Have been eying that machine significantly and currently torn between the MTO-3 and the Calidus myself..Recently contacted the factory requesting for Autogyro to consider having an open top(Canopy-less) version to the Calidus. That would be a nice option to have since without the canopy, the overall weight could be less probably ?30-40pounds. In place of the canopy, simple lexan windshields for both front and rear passengers(like in the MTO-3) would reduce wind blast and provide uncompromised aerodynamics in an already sleek machine. I strongly believe this Canopyless version of the Calidus would probably sell very well. Anyone with similar outlooks,, PLEASE contact the factory at their email and bombard them with this request, so we can have that option available.. If they even agreed to sell without the canopy(which they probably will not without testing), I'm pretty sure this machine retrofitted with individual lexan windshield would fly very well. This would be a new option for open air gyro flying and probably reduce the cost some.. I would probably consider getting the Calidus in the event this option is made avilable.. and whenever the euro-dollar exchange rate improves...
 

aerobatic

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Flew the Calidus and was quite impressed with the quality of production. Seems like the company has resolved some of the previous problems related to stick shake and others..Have been eying that machine significantly and currently torn between the MTO-3 and the Calidus myself..Recently contacted the factory requesting for Autogyro to consider having an open top(Canopy-less) version to the Calidus. That would be a nice option to have since without the canopy, the overall weight could be less probably ?30-40pounds. In place of the canopy, simple lexan windshields for both front and rear passengers(like in the MTO-3) would reduce wind blast and provide uncompromised aerodynamics in an already sleek machine. I strongly believe this Canopyless version of the Calidus would probably sell very well. Anyone with similar outlooks,, PLEASE contact the factory at their email and bombard them with this request, so we can have that option available.. If they even agreed to sell without the canopy(which they probably will not without testing), I'm pretty sure this machine retrofitted with individual lexan windshield would fly very well. This would be a new option for open air gyro flying and probably reduce the cost some.. I would probably consider getting the Calidus in the event this option is made avilable.. and whenever the euro-dollar exchange rate improves...

The canopy of the Calidus, even the standard one, surely don't weight 40 pounds or I'm much stronger than I thought.

I would say 15 pounds max, but I will put mine on a scale at the next swap to be sure.

Maher
 

WHY

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Total removal of the canopy might produce some undesireable flight effects ??

Tony
 

Gyro_Kai

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If i am not mistaken, the Calidus requires the airflow into the intake at the mast. Omitting the canopy may result in overheating.

Kai
 

HydroGyroNut

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All great points. I have emailed the factory. We will see what they say. If the canopy's weight is indeed insignificant then there would be no significant weight saving in ommitting it. I do still think it would provide another option for the Calidus, for those wanting the total canopyless experience ina sleek Calidus ,kinda like the MTO-3 but more sleek.
 
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