Magni M24 Orion May 30, 2023 - Dauphin Island Alabama

[Peterpilot]

Latest gyro accident per FAA:

ate:	30-MAY-23
Time:	16:15:00Z
Regis#:	N1777W
Aircraft Make:	MAGNIFLIGHT
Aircraft Model:	M24 ORION PLUS
Event Type:	ACCIDENT
Highest Injury:	MINOR
Aircraft Missing:	No
Damage:	SUBSTANTIAL
LOCATION
City:	CODEN
State:	ALABAMA
Country:	UNITED STATES
DESCRIPTION
Description:	AIRCRAFT CRASHED IN THE WATER NEAR DAUPHIN ISLAND FOR UNKNOWN REASONS, CODEN, AL.
INJURY DATA
Total Fatal:	0

	Fatal	Serious	Minor	None	Unknown
Flight Crew	0	0	1	0	0
Cabin Crew	0	0	0	0	0
Passenger	0	0	1	0	0
Ground	0	0	0	0	0

OTHER
Activity:	INSTRUCTION
Flight Phase:	UNKNOWN (UNK)
Operation:	91
Aircraft Operator:
Flight Number:
FAA FSDO:	ALABAMA AND NW FLORIDA FSDO
Entry Date:	31-MAY-23
Updated since entry:

 

[Peterpilot]

News Report is here:

Small aircraft with 2 people on board crashes in south Mobile County

Dauphin Island Mayor Jeff Collier said two people were on board the aircraft that went down in the marsh north of Cedar Point.

www.fox10tv.com

 

[loftus]

Great that there were no serious injuries. Hopefully in the end a story of how gyros can allow emergency landings with relative safety.

 

[PJB]

Anyone else find that film a bit odd in so far that it if it was an engine failure from a height that was normal then obviously still had quite a bit of energy to allow it to float for as long as it did, so therefore why not position for the more suitable road that seems next door and make a landing on tarmac rather than crash in the marsh? We sure this isn't just another example of what happens when you keep pushing on the poor airmanship door?

 

[loftus]

Anyone else find that film a bit odd in so far that it if it was an engine failure from a height that was normal then obviously still had quite a bit of energy to allow it to float for as long as it did, so therefore why not position for the more suitable road that seems next door and make a landing on tarmac rather than crash in the marsh? We sure this isn't just another example of what happens when you keep pushing on the poor airmanship door?

Hard to second guess where the pilot decided to put down. Maybe even something as simple as road traffic or wires could have influenced his decision.

 

[Eric S]

Hard to second guess where the pilot decided to put down. Maybe even something as simple as road traffic or wires could have influenced his decision.

Agreed. Until someone has an actual engine out, they won't know how fast things happen or how quickly you are on the ground, especially in a gyro. You can stay way up high where you'll have a little more time, but the view isn't as good.

 

[Vance]

Anyone else find that film a bit odd in so far that it if it was an engine failure from a height that was normal then obviously still had quite a bit of energy to allow it to float for as long as it did, so therefore why not position for the more suitable road that seems next door and make a landing on tarmac rather than crash in the marsh? We sure this isn't just another example of what happens when you keep pushing on the poor airmanship door?

There was a car on the road.

Often roads have wires.

There was a flight instructor on board who likely had the controls and was making the decisions once the engine went quiet.

I wasn't there and don't even know when the engine stopped producing thrust so I don't know if I could have done better.

Most flight instructors in the USA consul learners to avoid traffic and wires in an emergency landing.

 

[WaspAir]

There was a car on the road.

Indeed - that's where the video came from !


Poles and wires are visible in the video as well.

 

[PJB]

Yeah yeah I hear you all and I can see them too [the car and the road that is], and as you all say don't know, can't know at this stage but the final report will make for interesting reading, the aircraft at the point of filming had a lot of energy if at the point of filing it was in the glide.

 

[Abid]

Yeah yeah I hear you all and I can see them too [the car and the road that is], and as you all say don't know, can't know at this stage but the final report will make for interesting reading, the aircraft at the point of filming had a lot of energy if at the point of filing it was in the glide.

Maybe the engine was at idle and there was just a loss of power but not a complete engine stop and that's why he floated so long

 

[wolfy]

A rotax at idle wont provide enough thrust to do much for a big heavy two seater with two on board.
It would have been nice to see video prior to the first frame

wolfy

 

[Abid]

A rotax at idle wont provide enough thrust to do much for a big heavy two seater with two on board.
It would have been nice to see video prior to the first frame

wolfy

A 915 at 2500 RPM will float you a bit

 

[wolfy]

2500 Is that what a 915 is meant to idle at?

wolfy

 

[Abid]

2500 Is that what a 915 is meant to idle at?

wolfy

No at 1800+. But when you are flying and your speed is 50 knots the idle does not go down to at rest idle. It will be 2300 +. Only once you slow down or come to a stop will it go down to 1900.

 

[Tyger]

The CFI who gave me my checkride related a story about an engine out he had with a 9-series Rotax in a Magni. He said that the actual engine out was a "much different" experience than merely reducing to idle speed (he landed successfully on a sandbar alongside a creek).
I imagine not too many folks actually turn the engine off to simulate an engine out – for obvious reasons.

 

[WaspAir]

I imagine not too many folks actually turn the engine off to simulate an engine out – for obvious reasons.

It ceases to be a simulation when you do that.

In glider training we simulate a broken tow rope by pulling the tow release. The event is simulated, but the emergency is immediately real, because you'll never be able to reach out and grab that rope again, and there's no throttle to firewall.

 

[PJB]

The CFI who gave me my checkride related a story about an engine out he had with a 9-series Rotax in a Magni. He said that the actual engine out was a "much different" experience than merely reducing to idle speed (he landed successfully on a sandbar alongside a creek).
I imagine not too many folks actually turn the engine off to simulate an engine out – for obvious reasons.

A qualified flight instructor conducting a lesson with a student likely has a much wider range than the average pilot given the amount of attention practice and practising engine failures get. Where is the wind?, size, shape, surface, slope, surround would be second nature. The report will be interesting and of course why a new motor “fails”…

 

[Andino]

A gyro engine-out has a dramatically short glide range, much shorter than engine-idle. It's worth practicing with a CFI over a long runway. Low flying is indeed fun in a gyro, but I cringe from the needless chances many take.

 

[Vance]

A gyro engine-out has a dramatically short glide range, much shorter than engine-idle. It's worth practicing with a CFI over a long runway. Low flying is indeed fun in a gyro, but I cringe from the needless chances many take.

My experience has been the converse.

All of the gyroplanes I have flown have a longer glide with the engine stopped than with the engine at idle.

To better simulate an engine out we crank up the idle a bit.

 

[loftus]

My experience has been the converse.

All of the gyroplanes I have flown have a longer glide with the engine stopped than with the engine at idle.

To better simulate an engine out we crank up the idle a bit.

There is much controversy on this.
With an adjustable prop, feathering with an engine out decreases drag, hence the practice to feather the prop in multiengine aircraft engine out scenarios.
With a Rotax with fixed pitch propellor, the propellor stops when the engine stops; intuitively to me this should create more drag than if the prop is spinning with some power.
If one would crank up the idle when the airplane is on the ground the airplane would taxi faster, indicating to me the prop is contributing to moving forward, not retarding it. ???