Magni M16 Subaru

bpearson

Senior Member
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Jun 26, 2004
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946
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Nottingham
Hopefully you will see a picture of my Magni M16. It is at the airfield where it is to be kept while I finish off my licence. Pictured is the test pilot David Beevers. We had just flown it in from the final dual tests. The machine is nearly ten years old, the original owner never getting round to flying it and stored it on his front garden under a plastic sheet. It is powered by a Scheppers' JSB4c. 16 litres per hour two up cruise on a red hot day ! No stick shake one up or dual and a climb rate nearly double my old single seater flown solo. Just waiting for the paperwork and then the fun starts.

Brian.
 

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Chuck Roberg

Gyro's are more fun
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Naperville, IL
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I see hours and hours of FUN. I'm sure you will enjoy flying it immensely.
 

Mike G

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Lillebonne France
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Owned Magni M16 now ELA 07
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bpearson
Is that Nottingham England? I assume so since Sheppers is in Belgium.
I understood that the Magni wasn't cleared for flying in UK, how are you getting away with it?

Mike G
 

MOB*

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Erpe
Mike G said:
bpearson
Is that Nottingham England? I assume so since Sheppers is in Belgium.
I understood that the Magni wasn't cleared for flying in UK, how are you getting away with it?

Mike G
The Magni isn't cleared (not yet) in the UK but the old VPM is allowed to fly with the Arrow GT 1000 or with this JSB 1.8 4c.
 

bpearson

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Joined
Jun 26, 2004
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946
Location
Nottingham
Engine

Engine

Had some emails asking for photos of the engine. Unfortunately most are on my dead computer. This is all I have at the moment. More here

http//www.jsb-engines.be/main.html

Brian.
 

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jos

jos
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Jan 12, 2004
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147
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belgium
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magigyro M16
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700
Hello,
The UK has very strick demands on modification and construction of gyroplanes.
The conversion of the early Magnigyro called VPM from Vittorio Piedro Magni was done by 3 persons because the workload was enormous.
The engine we had at the time of the certification is not build anymore since most of the VPM gyrroplanes are already converted.( But still maintained)
Today I only build turbocharged engines based upon ea81 and mostly ea 71.
The turbo engines are more cost efficient and simpler to build but also les heavy.
The total gyroplane weight for a two seater in Europe cannot exceed 270 kg empty or 600 pounds.
Thanks Brian for the publicity but you should offer me a flight in your machine and some nice pics to put on my webpage.

Jos Schepers Belgium
 

bpearson

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Joined
Jun 26, 2004
Messages
946
Location
Nottingham
No problem Jos. Next time you are in England.
Mike G: We do not get away with anything over here. Our regulations are ridiculous and stop us flying safe machines. The new Magni 2000 is still not cleared to fly and you tell me a safer machine in the sky ! And now they are putting stupid rules on gyros that have 35 year good safety record. We envy the rest of you that are able to fly what you choose at your own risk. I think the latest wave of regulations are as a result of legal action..... not everything we get from America is good.
It would be nice to live in a country where to risk my life is my choice !

Brian
 

Mike G

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Lillebonne France
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Owned Magni M16 now ELA 07
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Brian
I'm a Brit living in France, I've just finished a conversion to the Rotax powered M16 and am looking for a second hand M16 ata price I can afford. If you hear of one let me know. I may be lucky living an a country where I can fly a M16 but I'm not as lucky as you, finding one in somebodys front garden.
Which field are you at in Nottingham, I lived in Derby for 4 years many many years ago so know the area a bit.
I flew 3 different M16's and they all seemed to me to have a fair amount of stick shake, although "a fair amount" is not a very scientific measure of vibration I was a bit dissapointed. We even did some balancing of one of the rotors but it didn't help a lot. How did you balance your rotor?

I may be coming over to Derby this year to visit an old friend perhaps I could look you up?

Mike G
 

bpearson

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Mike. M16's are very scarce. Because the new Magnis are still not allowed, if one comes up for sale it is at a high price and with a useless engine. Putting on a Rotax can add nearly £20,000.00. The new Magnis will cost over 40k. Some people will never justify this money but if you have it I can't think of anything that will give you so much fun. It is a highly developed product.
I wonder if the stick shake you had was with the early blades ? The first M16 I flew had terrible shake. This i believe was solved with the adjustable hub bar but I may be wrong.
Get in touch when you are in the UK and we will meet up.

Brian
 

Mike G

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Lillebonne France
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Owned Magni M16 now ELA 07
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550FW + 500 gyro
Brian
One of the M16s was practically brand new. What is this about an adjustable hub bar? They all seemed to me to have the same system with no adjustment except the axial position of the hub bar on the teeter pin .
I've tried to attach a sketch of what I mean.
What sort of hub bar do you have?
What is the difference between the VPM and the M16?
Mike G
 

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bpearson

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Mike.
Thats all the adjustment there is. Before that you had no adjustment. I flew two of these and one was so bad it was scary but the other was great. Maybe it is down to the matching of the blades and rotorhead. My head was sent back for refurbishment to Italy and came back with my new blades. Perhaps they were matched ? Another identical machine I know of had new blades but these shake a bit. I doubt you will ever get perfection for both solo or dual.
How bad was the shake ? My instructor's machine was far better than what I had flown before but nowhere near as good as mine.
VPM M16 was the model before the Magni 2000 M16.

Brian
 

Mike G

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Lillebonne France
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Owned Magni M16 now ELA 07
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550FW + 500 gyro
Brian
How bad is "bad", one man's meat is another man's poison. I must say I got used to it as the week went on but the first flight almost made me sick, the constant low frequency vibration in my stomach.
I'm really interested in how people balance rotors, I started a thread about it but the replies didn't really tell me anymore than I already knew or assumed. If you have any info I'd be happy to read about it.

What changes were made to the VPM to make it an M16?

Mike G
 

bpearson

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Mike
I think the changes were mainly to allow larger pilots to fit in the thing. A larger tank also. The airframe is now different, no dual mast and the tail does not have the steel outriggers to strenghthen it....... new tail doesn't need them.
I fit into the old model fine and prefer it's looks which is lucky as the new model is still not approved. Of course the cost is high but in my oppinion worth it. Think of it as a Ferrari that flies !
Don't really know how to balance/set up rotors. The only experience I have is with Dragon Wings. These were simply patterned with string, the only adjustment. Never had any shake with these. I have seen people spend days trying to smooth out other blades without luck, yet another set from the same manufacturer fly great.

Brian.
 

NIEL

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Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
2
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KROONSTAD
Stick shake

Stick shake

The only way to balance any gyro or helicopter rotor system is with a dynamic balancer where you get vertical and lateral readings and do adjustments to correct the out of balance conditions.(head shift , tracking. tip weight or a combination of them all ) What I have found on some Gyros that had new blades or different type blades fitted ,we could not get them balanced at all. you get the lateral below say 0.2 IPS then the vertical is 1 - 1.3 IPS and vice versa . The ideal is to get both below 0.2 IPS. And remember the balancing will only be correct at a certain airspeed with a certain cockpit weight. So it all is a comprimise where you fly and how you fly most of the time's. Some rotor systems dont match some gyros because of rotor head undersling differences that needs to be calculated in the design of the gyro and rotor system. Rotor blade weight ,rotor rpm and the gyro's flying weight determine the undersling.
It is a lot more than just weighing and aligning two blade's.

Niel
 

Mike G

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Niel

What equipment are you using to measure vibration velocity? I assume IPS is inch per second?
Also can you give more details of your procedure?
Where is Kroonstad, it sounds Scandinavian?

Mike G
 

Mike G

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André

Thanks, I'll maybe have some questions when I've read it all.

Mike G
 
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