M2 912 sport copter

Kolibri

FW and Gyros
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
1,636
Location
Wyoming
Aircraft
Cessna 152, 172, 172RG, 177, 206 -- Piper 180 -- RV-7A -- Calidus -- RAF2000 -- Sport Copter II and
Total Flight Time
1000+
they have chosen to go on using free castering nose wheels and differentials brakes saying that this what one
would expect from "real aircraft "
ok it is one choice , but not the only one , other gyros are real aircrafts as well
jm-urbani, have you flown any gyro with castering NW and differential toe brakes?
I have, and it's a great improvement over the commonly pedal-linked NW.
Both takeoffs and landings are easier, removing most risk of a NW tip-over.
It's very forgiving of sloppy landings, such as touching down with any crab, or wheelbarrowing.
The contrast with my RAF is night and day.
 

Kolibri

FW and Gyros
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
1,636
Location
Wyoming
Aircraft
Cessna 152, 172, 172RG, 177, 206 -- Piper 180 -- RV-7A -- Calidus -- RAF2000 -- Sport Copter II and
Total Flight Time
1000+
Bonjour jm-urbani,

Your described landing technique (with a soft-linkage NW) goes a long way to avoiding tip-overs, so, bravo!
However, many gyros and their pilots are different, and they see more NW tip-overs.
A white MTO demonstrated one at 2017 Mentone.

I have chirped the NW of my RAF and felt it grab/pull, but avoided dumping over.
Some of that was a skillful recovery; the rest was luck.

I urge the castering NW to reduce the amount of luck one needs to stay safe.
Having made some sloppy landings in three Sport Copters, their difference really is amazing.
The M2 gear will probably be so forgiving that a chimpanzee could land it.
Jim told me that he's going to upload some close-up videos of (intentionally) bad landings, wheelbarrow take-offs, etc.

I was just pointing out that saying that a real aircraft is an aircraft using a free castering nose wheel was exagerated do't you think
They worded that in a rather jaunty way, I agree, and, yes, gyros are aircraft . . . but, in my opinion, some gyros are more "real aircraft" than others. Design, materials, performance, etc.

Flying in the Côte d'Azur must be a hoot. I rode motorcycles through there years ago; beautiful country!
Enjoy yourself, and stay safe!

Salut!
Kolibri
 

Kolibri

FW and Gyros
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
1,636
Location
Wyoming
Aircraft
Cessna 152, 172, 172RG, 177, 206 -- Piper 180 -- RV-7A -- Calidus -- RAF2000 -- Sport Copter II and
Total Flight Time
1000+
for me it must be psychological in fact... with a free castering nose wheel I fear not to be able to stay on the strip axle when I put on all the watts
With a pedal-linked NW, on take-off one must be very careful to balance on the mains and not drop the front (and risk a tip-over).
This may be generally difficult for new pilots, and difficult for experienced pilots during gusty days.

Such is not an issue with the castering NW, and, in fact, Vanek's T/O technique is to at first lightly tap the NW during the roll as he balances.
This helps to finesse the power/pitch coupling. (Obviously, this should not be done in an RAF, etc.)


apart from landing how does it behave during taxiing ? ...
Taxiing couldn't be easier with such maneuverability, and SC gyros can turn 360s within their wheelbase.
Pedal-linked nosewheel gyros, however, have a much wider turning radius, and some can't even 180 within a taxiway.

I will change to a free castering system when I have time .
The design trick is to avoid shimmy (like a shopping cart/trolly).
SC developed their own method, and it works well.
(Before the mid-1990s they had had a semi-castering NW, but Jim went to full castering after watching a botched landing tump over the gyro.)

You've a fun USA trip planned, and I hope you even get some flying in over here!
Bienvenue!
Kolibri
 

Eric S

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
167
Location
Kingsland, TX
Aircraft
Sport Copter Vortex & AAI (Sparrowhawk) RAF
My RAF with the Sparrowhawk mod is "semi-castering" with spring loaded tension. It's a steerable nosewheel, but if I tap the front wheel during takeoff it will track straight even if I have rudder input for a crosswind, just like my Sport Copter Vortex. It works well and I think all Sparrowhawks are designed this way, but I'm not sure about Stock RAFs. No differential braking on my Sparrowhawk though, so it won't turn around as tight as my Vortex.

I talked to another pilot who also bought a RAF with the Sparrowhawk mod and on his the nuts on the nosewheel springs were screwed down tight forcing the nosewheel to follow the pedals during rudder input. That's a recipe for a rollover in a crosswind or if not completely stopped before touching down the nosewheel after landing.

Eric
 

Kolibri

FW and Gyros
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
1,636
Location
Wyoming
Aircraft
Cessna 152, 172, 172RG, 177, 206 -- Piper 180 -- RV-7A -- Calidus -- RAF2000 -- Sport Copter II and
Total Flight Time
1000+
Eric, your Sparrowhawk has many safety improvements over the RAF, kudos!

The stock RAF has springs in the linkage, which if adjusted correctly, do help a bit -- although there's no safe crosswind rudder usage with NW on the runway. I am very careful when returning to my RAF after flying castering NW gyros.

I believe that many runway and taxiway excursions were at least exacerbated by pedal-linked nosewheels.
Several incidents were outright caused by them, such as OY-1025, ZU-RGU, N571UJ, and G-CIAT.

Perhaps the pedal-linked nosewheel will later be analogous to the design-preventable "HTL" issue.
There is already a corrective trajectory with trailed-link semi-castering NWs (Sparrowhawk, AR-1, TE).
Most gyro mfg. will eventually catch up with 1995 Sport Copter, lol.
 

Eric S

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
167
Location
Kingsland, TX
Aircraft
Sport Copter Vortex & AAI (Sparrowhawk) RAF
jm,

Here's a pic of my RAF/Sparrowhawk "spring semi-castering" steering system. I run 15 psi in the nose wheel tire per instructions and I have never experienced any shimmy, even at high speed with crosswind rudder input. My instructor had me tap the nose wheel several times at around 40-50 mph to show me how well it works.

Sorry for the dirty cabin. It's hard to keep clean operating from dusty grass strips in the summer and flying with the doors off.

RAF-Sparrowhawk spring castering nosewheel pic.jpg
 

PW_Plack

Active Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
8,572
Location
West Valley City, Utah, USA
If that AeroMomentum engine is the 1.3L 100-HP version, we have one locally on a two-place PPC which looks like a beautiful alternative to the 912, although the wait time was five months from order.
 

j4flyer

Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
290
Location
Woodland, Ca
I wouldn’t get to upset about the promo hype. Most aircraft companies say something that will set them apart from the others. Cessna, Cirrus and Piper all refer to their products as “better” machines. I look at construction and customer service. What I believe is excellent engineering someone else may think it old school. How do they fly, are they safe and do they meet normal aircraft building standards. These are the real concerns. Sportcopter does extensive testing on all their products. I would bet money few of the other companies testing will rise to the level of Sportcopter. Does that make them the best ? No, it simply sets the bar.
 

SportCopter

Active Member
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
172
Location
Scappoose
Aircraft
Vortex M912, SportCopter II, Vortex 582, M2
Due to our M2 Development schedule we must cancel our presence at Oshkosh this year, for three compelling reasons: We wouldn't be able to fly off the 40 hours Phase 2 in time, Jim is still not "out of the woods" in his recovery and remains under doctor's care, and we should spend the nearly 3 weeks of Oshkosh prep/travel/unpacking to complete these first M2s for our Australian customers.

At this point, we've decided not to feel so pressured to attend this year, and use that time for testing. While we could have first flown the M2 months ago with our stock rotorhead and tail, we prefer to bypass such stop-gap measures and concentrate on the new generation components, carbon fiber tooling and prepreg carbon fiber parts that combine to make the M2 all the more improved, sophisticated, and a longer lasting new unique design.

So, we're sorry to miss our friends and clients at Oshkosh, but we'll let you know when the M2 is flying. We plan on hosting a Sport Copter Open House in September, with Jim offering logbook dual time in our M2. Contact us if you'd like to be on the approved list to fly with us.
 

SportCopter

Active Member
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
172
Location
Scappoose
Aircraft
Vortex M912, SportCopter II, Vortex 582, M2
During Oshkosh 2018 a staph infection in his calf was repeatedly misdiagnosed by a local urgent care clinic. By the middle of the show Jim was feeling so poorly that he cancelled his Mentone appearance and flew back to Oregon earlier than planned. Even the Portland hospital didn't initially catch the infection on his first visit, but a cat-scan did the next day when Jim returned. They immediately operated on him to remove a large abcess. Unfortunately, the infection had also spread to a knee and his back, which required two more surgeries. That, and weeks of pic line with antibiotics and months with a back & neck brace.

Jim got his Class 2 Medical back in late 2018, is still current, and flying. He feels better every week, and has been putting in full work days for many months now, but his doctors had cautioned him about a long recovery and not to overdo things meanwhile. Oshkosh would have risked overdoing it for him right now.

We appreciate everyone's concern, but Jim is well on the mend and our new M2 finishing up nicely. We'll post more here soon!
 

DavePA11

Active Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
914
Location
USA
Glad he is recovering. Sounds like a nightmare to go through. Anxious to see the M2 and Jim well again!
 

mdalcant

Newbie
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
6
Location
Park City, UT
It's a side-by-side, enclosed cabin, robust gyro with full suspension and castering NW.
Rotax 915iS (or 914 or 912).
Carbon prepreg body (only 25 lbs.) and seat pan/firewall (14.5 lbs.) mounted on a beefy frame.
Chrome-moly 4130 folding mast.
1.25" axle with conical tapered Timkin bearings. Big 6.00-6 tires. Rough field capability.
All new triple V-stab tail, with improved performance.
Simple flat curve windscreen (cheaply replaceable from local sources).
Designed for the Australian cattle ranchers, with their considerable input.

I don't think any other 2-place gyro can beat it for quality, ruggedness, and utility.
And I think it's less money than either a Cavalon or M24.
Kits (with Rotax 912) start at $86,500.

It's available very soon this year, and the prototype has been a big hit at 2018 Oshkosh AirVenture.

[/QUOTE]
Kolibri:
I have been trying to reach the company, but they do not return my emails They communicated with me last November 2018, and things were apparently moving fast, however, almost a year later, i have not seen actual availability of the M2 kit. Do you know anything more current? I am losing hope.
Thank you,
mdalcant
 

SportCopter

Active Member
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
172
Location
Scappoose
Aircraft
Vortex M912, SportCopter II, Vortex 582, M2
I have been trying to reach the company, but they do not return my emails They communicated with me last November 2018, and things were apparently moving fast, however, almost a year later, i have not seen actual availability of the M2 kit. Do you know anything more current? I am losing hope.
Thank you,
mdalcant

Hi Mauro, we apologize that your emails somehow "fell through the cracks" but we'll track them down. Our office number is 503-543-7000 and you're welcome to call anytime. While we could have offered much earlier the 2018 Oshkosh M2 (with M912 tail and boom, control panel, rotorhead, etc.) it is difficult for Jim and Evan to cease improving what was already the world's most utilitarian 2-place gyro. They are much more pleased with their final round of refinements, and that superior M2 is what we will deliver to our patient customers.

Below is the large M2 panel for those using a 10" glass display. The panel comes with glare hood and screened venting cowl. It will be offered in a clear-coated polished finish as an option. (We may add a pilot’s side lockable glovebox.)

M2 large panel.jpg

Apart from Jim's medical recovery (he's doing very well these days, and thanks all of you who have so kindly expressed concern and best wishes), much of the M2 delay has been the co-development of our production tooling. We aim to satisfy demand without long waiting times.

In particular, is the revolutionary new pre-preg carbon-fiber tail (which has never been engineered this way for gyros, nor even for airplanes to our knowledge). No more easily dimpled/bent aluminum sheets, and no more unsightly rivets or exposed hardware. It's the design that we will use on our 260+hp 4-place SC4.

M2 carbon-fiber tail.png


Below are the aluminum M912 and carbon-fiber M2 rudders, with comparable weight per area:

rudders - M912 and M2.png


Don't try this with any glass/foam or aluminum rudder:

M2 carbon-fiber rudder.png


Notice the huge difference of the M2’s 1¼” axle vs. our excellent M912 with ¾” axle.
Like the SC2, the M2 wheel hubs have conical tapered bearings to better share the load.
The M2 axle and brakes are unlike any other gryo in its class.

axles - M912 and M2.png


The M2's 2” brake caliper has 4x more pad area than our M912 1” caliper.
This new caliper uses a Cessna pad, which you can order from Aircraft Spruce, etc.

brake calipers - M912 and M2.png


Besides the Rotax 912 and 914, we will offer two competitively priced higher horsepower engine options:

Rotax 915iS
(141 hp @ 5800 rpm, and 130+hp continuous @ 5500 rpm up to 15,000' MSL),​
. . . and for about $20,000 less the M2-AM with Aeromomentum's normally aspirated AM15-HP
(147 hp @ 6500 rpm, and 130+ hp continuous @ 6200 rpm).​

We'll very shortly begin testing both M2s, and then hosting a Sport Copter Open House this Fall for sample flights.
Details to be posted soon here in this thread!

SC advantages over other gyros.png
 
Last edited:

SportCopter

Active Member
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
172
Location
Scappoose
Aircraft
Vortex M912, SportCopter II, Vortex 582, M2
You're welcome Dave, and we'll post flying M2 video links here to our Sport Copter YouTube channel. They'll include crabbed 20° landings on the nosewheel, tight radius 360° ground handling, "off-road" taxiing, and vigorous aerial maneuvers.

Our preliminary calculations indicate that with equal fuel the 140hp M2 with 200 lb. passenger will have the same power:weight ratio as our 100hp single-place Vortex M912. I.e., M912 performance, but for two!
 

SportCopter

Active Member
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
172
Location
Scappoose
Aircraft
Vortex M912, SportCopter II, Vortex 582, M2
November 2019 Sport Copter M2 Update

Here are two 200 pound men standing on an unsupported horizontal stabilizer.
Don't try that on any standard aluminum tail part.
Our design team was amazed at the strength-to-weight ratio.

M2 pre-preg carbon tail.png

All Sport Copter M2 pre-preg carbon-fiber tail pieces incorporate our new revolutionary V-SparTM design technology
for unsurpassed strength, while lighter than common fiberglass wet layup and foam-filled parts.
Much stronger in flight, and virtually say good-bye to hangar rash!

M2 tail from above.png

M2 tail progression.png


With nearly all parts (but for rotor) on-board temporarily in their positions, we hung her to test preliminary weight and balance.
We are well within our target ranges.

M2 first hang test.png


Between two “big brother” SC2s, you can see how substantial the M2 is.

M2 with SC2s.png
M2 left side.png
M2 quartering away.png

Our goal for the M2 is to offer you the world’s most rugged 2-place gyro — always ready for tough missions.

M2 and SC2 big brothers.png
 
Last edited:

DavePA11

Active Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
914
Location
USA
When do you think one will fly? Looks great. Very impressed. How do you think it will perform in higher elevation areas such as around CO?
 
Last edited:
Top