Little Wing Boosters Questions, Comments and related info

[mcbirdman]

Well, here is the first post to provide a good spot for questions about our builder pages. We have been working hard on producing some Tractors on the Little Wing Booster Progress thread and for our single place build it is in the Single Place LW Michigan thread ( I think ) where we have put photographs and some detailed information. We have tried to keep our focus on what we have done without going off topic. We realize that it makes it hard to post a question and have us answer it or to just say hi without making it cluttered so this is the place. We will be happy to try to help you as much as we can but we are just a few guys trying to make a difference.

We are not experts at anything but we are proving we are capable not by just talking but by building. If there is something we haven't considered or might be of help or interest to you we would like to see it here. These projects have taken a lot of our time for 1st timers and we have learned alot of things.... including but not limited to how not to do things. If you just want an opinion those are free (but really... everyone has them anyways )and if we can help you a little if you are stuck - or need a little encouragement, we will try to help. Although our main goal is to get these flying we like most anyone else on this forum - don't mind helping a fellow gyro pilot just the same as others have done for us. The gyro community is diverse, large, spread out and very interesting. This is a great place to share this information and to read about the path we, and others have chosen.

 

[mcbirdman]

Dick Wunderlich

Dick Wunderlich

Well, a few weeks ago we went down to see Dick Wunderlich.
. He is a man who is now retired as a High School Shop teacher who still runs his machine shop. The Shop is next to his house and was a wonderful place to visit. We took some photos (will be posted soon) of some of the metal ART he has created. We saw a gattling ? gun that shot 22cal bullets that was built from scratch. It was not just a sand, cut tubing and assemble kit. His scratch builds included thimbal sized steam engines to 4x bigger than Lionel scale traincars with fully functional cannon on it. Over 1000 miniture rivets, all the cranks and gears functional including the ability to shoot off a shotgun shell with full recoil working.....

He sold us the ring gears for 2 of the machines and Rich will be working on getting the electric starter made for the prerotator now that we have some basic parts.

There are so many people that have invested years into building and flying gyros. Their knowledge and abilities will be gone if not taught to our younger builders. We could have just ordered the parts and waited for them but I am so thankful that Rich wanted to make the stop personally. Some day his contribution will be recognised and appreciated even more than it is today. As I meet people and get the opportunity to meet and know these people it makes me realize how much we really have as a gyro community. His prerotator and rotorbrakes are on many machines and makes life so much easier. It is this kind of dedication and talent in the people we continue to meet that helps us get things done and deepen our appreciation for these individuals.

We really enjoy building, learning, and trying to share what little we realize we know when we meet such masters of their craft. This path we have chosen in building is very rewarding.

 

[Adam H]

We're very proud to have Dick in our club; he's always ready help and offer good advice. Chances are, when it comes to gyros, if you’ve thought about it, he’s tried it. Incidentally, his last name is spelled Wunderlich.

 

[mcbirdman]

Hi Adam, I was afraid of that....Thanks. I went back and changed the spelling. Even mispelled - people know who he is and what he has done. Pretty impressive in a positive way.

 

[MechFx]

Just wanted to give you some congratulations on the builders pages. They really are excellent.

I have the plans myself and am in the early planning stages.

Any thought about turning the finished information into a book or unofficial manual of sorts?

Thanks again and keep up the good work (on the LW and the builders pages !)

cheers

Art

 

[richard lidke]

Thanks Art.

Thanks Art.

Just wanted to give you some congratulations on the builders pages. They really are excellent.

I have the plans myself and am in the early planning stages.

Any thought about turning the finished information into a book or unofficial manual of sorts?

Thanks again and keep up the good work (on the LW and the builders pages !)

cheers

Art

Hi Art. Littlewing Booster Rich here. We hope our photos and verbage can help someone who is in the same process that we are. Our intentions are to offer our experiences for a positive information sharing exchange. We want others to have as much fun as we are, while they gain a positive feeling for their building and quality of work.

Best Regards , Booster Rich.

By the way, where are you located friend?:usa2:

 

[MechFx]

HI Rich,

I'm live most of the time in Sydney , NSW (Australia of course) but am based near Cowra ( about 200k's west of Sydney).

I'm also the editor of the local Gyro magazine . called Gyro News.

You can check out the Aussie Gyro scene on http://www.asra.org.au or http://www.rotorcraft.com.au

cheers

Art

 

[richard lidke]

Great Work Mate!

Great Work Mate!

lane:

HI Rich,

I'm live most of the time in Sydney , NSW (Australia of course) but am based near Cowra ( about 200k's west of Sydney).

I'm also the editor of the local Gyro magazine . called Gyro News.

You can check out the Aussie Gyro scene on http://www.asra.org.au or http://www.rotorcraft.com.au

cheers

Art

Thanks a lot Art. Looks like some excellent sites for me to look at. I will when I have a bit more time. Off to work here now its Five Thirty in the morning. I'm an early riser.

Will write soon.

Tailwinds Mate. Booster Rich :welcome:

 

[MechFx]

Any Booster progress ?????

Any Booster progress ?????

Hi there,
Last post from the booster group was last year.....

You must be nearly finished on the LW's with all the time you have saved not writing about it !!!

Cmon guys, I need my tractor fix....... Please ???

cheers,

Art

 

[mcbirdman]

Mike and Art

Mike and Art

We have been working on the machines a little bit through the winter. We found it isn't too bad working on the tubing and big raw pieces in the winter but when it comes to putting the little pieces together with cold fingers it takes much longer in man hours rather than wait til spring.

Rich has come up a few times and I have gone down there but we are looking forward to spring. I have been doing a total restore on a 67 bug that needed a lot of work but it was big parts and much easier to work on.

Rich called yesterday and wanted to come up and see me so we could catch up on the rotorhead progress as he was making the plates for the pre-rotator. I am sure he has some photos he wants to have updated on the other building thread so that will be happening soon.

So far I have painted the frame, fitted the landing gear (still changing out the bolts) with the air shocks. I also added a special brace that comes out from the area near the rear gear attch point and angles out to the top of the shock to help stabalize it. I used two pieces of metal that one slides inside the other and will be able to set the correct extension with a pin. I also really wanted a step so I could reach up and work or inspect the rotor mast and this tube provides this stepping point.

All in all, not a lot done but once we start going it should move right along. Rich started covering his in areas that he won't need access to but I think it is only a couple days or so to cover all of it anyway so I am not in a rush to do so. I would rather wait til we have decided on the engine and have all the wires installed.

Mike, Rich might be able to help out on some parts but the main drive for him is to get his own machine running. It really isn't that hard if you have a background in welding and metalworking. We will have some notes on things concerning the plans and what to do (or not to do). We are anxious to see more of these aircraft flying and will try to support anyone else who is accepting such a great and rewarding project.
I will try to post some photos I have done of the gyro and the special fairing that will add much roundness to the overall look.

Winter was especially hard on me as the economy is slow here but I hope I will be able to get back out there and book a few more weddings to help me push ahead towards an engine. In the meantime we have been just working on things we, or at least I, can afford.

I am going to go back and change the cooling vents on the single place little wing as the new ones interfere with the fiberglass cowling too much.
Once we are done with this I have a little bit of wiring to do and I will be back down to the airport breaking the engine in.

Thanks for asking about us. I believe that if I was to start another one - now that I have learned quite a bit about the metalworking - a project like this is not that difficult if you take it step by step. Go for it !

 

[mcbirdman]

Art - for you......

Art - for you......

Art - Hope this helps. Hope we aren't too late for you :drama:

 

[Aussie_Paul]

Looking great James.

Aussie Paul.

 

[Mike Jackson]

Thanks for the response James.

I got my dwgs yesterday and have spent a lot of time reviewing them - most likely will go with the 2 pl short version.

Not sure of engine yet - Rotax vs Rotec.

I like your ldg. Looks more old school and wider (haven't compared yet).

I have numerous projects - soon a '49 Chevy PU been in the family barn for well over 30 years now. I'm looking for a jump start on the LW. I'm not afraid of metal work, but don't feel I want to weld my own fuselage at this time.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[giro5]

A couple of questions?? The gyro in the picture has an elevator. Are you planning to have both elevator and tilting in pitch contorl or just elevator?

I am building a Ron Heron Little Wing T tail for a bensen. I have the polyfiber manual and video on covering. The problem I have is the instruction material talkes about what to do when the rib are flat but not what to do when you have round tube as ribs. Ie. how far apart are the lacing holes? And if the ribs are smaller than the outer frame what do you do? My current plan is to use poly fill to glue some wood cap strips on the round tubing and fair it to the shape between the front and rear tubes on each sturcture ie vert stab, & rudder,. The Horiz stab is all one size so I am wondering how to lace the "ribs" on it with the round tubes. Any one have any experience in this??

 

[mcbirdman]

Hi Giro. I can only tell you what I have done. There is always so many opinions that are offered - even from those who don't even have a project.

What you will find is that in Ron's plans there are a few models and things are interspersed. There have been a few revisions and modifications and they are all still there in the plans and it is easy to get a little confused if you don't realize this is what you are looking at.

The first one had an elevator for control and was a much larger stab. My stab is the current style used on all models after the fully articulated head was implemented. What IS different is that I have placed a gear/mechanism for pilot controlled adjustment of the trim. I don't know if I will need it or not but I figured it might just come in a bit handy. I have a sliding indicator up in the front so I have an idea how much pitch is dialed in.

One of the problems I had learning to cover is that I started covering and then someone said everything had to be laced. I went back and added this and then someone said why did I do that when it was'nt needed. I was told that it wasn't like we were going over 100mph where you might get some fabric flutter and certainly not the kind of problem that you would have if it was your wings losing material. The original LW's were flown with only cover on the rudder and stab.

In order to stich the tail, I would suggest using a curved needle. It will let you feel the metal on the edges as you are pushing through so that you can come out at on the other side of the stab close to the highest point on the tubing (where the fabric touches the metal )which can then be taped over. It isn't that hard to do but it can take a bit of time depending on how much stiching you decide to do. Just be thankful that you only have a tail to do and not wings and fuselage.

Remember, we aren't covering a stearman. You can get carried away with all the sealing and alluminum and priming and painting and end up like me - a heavier than needed a/c. That is why I am likely going to do a recover job with lighter cloth and without all the extra weight. A stearman or just about any OTHER kind of aircraft is left out in the weather but because of the rotorhead we don't. I don't see any problem with a lightweight covering job like Ron does because it isn't out in the sunlight most of the time. Ron told me that he wanted to save weight so he put a coat of sealer/primer on his glider weight cloth and finished with one coat of paint. On the recover of the single place, if I do it, and on my two place machine - I am going to do exactly as Ron has done. It seems to work well for him..... :first:

AND - it should save me gallons of paint

I hope this helps.

 

[MechFx]

Great to see the new pictures,
Keep them coming

Art

 

[FlyFast]

Hi James,

I'm a Little Wing builder too. I'm finishing up my horizontal stabilizer.
I see in your picture that you have modified horizontal stabilizer ribs. Are they tube, wood, or both? I modified mine too, to simplify construction.
Did you also modify the rudder rib or did you build it to plans? I used channel rather than making it from sheet stock.
Thanks for the photos!

Keith

 

[mcbirdman]

Hi Kieth,

We made the rudder as per plans with U channel tapering from the thick root of the rudder with a tapered overlap as it reaches to the smaller tubing in the back.

The Stab was made from thin round tubing. I hand bent them to save time. On my single place I built up the ribs with wood and it took a lot more time than just making it with a few tubes. Glad to hear you are working on a LW also.

:usa2:

Now - if we could just get Art to build one it would most certainly be a piece of Art !

 

[JEFF TIPTON]

For additional information on rib stitching and fabric work in general use AC 43.13 1B Chapter 2 Fabric covering.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/99c827db9baac81b86256b4500596c4e/$FILE/Chapter%2002.pdf

 

[mcbirdman]

The plans call for a header tank but 6 gallons is simply not enough. Ron had put together a belly tank out of alluminum. Does anyone know how thick and the type of alluminum that we should use? I know thinner will form better but I can't find in my notes what the ideal thickness or type is. I am thinking about trying to lay up a mock tank. Thanks, jtm