Little Wing Booster Progress....

OK this is not going to be like how big and where to put the HS.
Do it the way you feel good doing it.
I was just putting out what I see not that it is the only way to do it sorry to get this started.
MIG TIG GAS all do great welds in the right hands
 
Lw Booster Progress

Lw Booster Progress

These photos were taken on break after realizing that we were done with the frame jig and were going to go to the vertical.
 

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Texas Ken, you're right, it was the tubing next to the weld that disintegrated when I applied a little pressure.
 
"Electric welding? No use for gyros. Must be torch welding." Nobody appears to disagree. This was the very first thing I learned from fellow gyro owners friends of mine. Some things are repeated so many times they become as if they were cinzeled in stone (even when misleading).

The other day I was passing by a place were a corporation will construct a big building. They were preparing the basis, welding huge spars of steel. A worker told me that they weld together 3 spars and put it inside the ground. Each has to support much weight thru decades without any manteinance. Guess what welding method do they use?

After that, I talked about with some knowledgeable people. Conclusion: any welding method can be bad or good. The result depends largely on the worker expertise.
 
Jim and all;

The group seems to be making good progress and I commend them on their efforts.
I had two recommendations initially. One was that you should build one complete unit and then use that as the baseline for future tubing orders, corrections, notes on special techniques, etc. This allows a trial fit for everything before committing to multiple mistakes.


I do understand the logic of building several at once..... but be careful.


The other was to MIG or TIG weld. I love gas welding and it is perfectly acceptable, even preferred for certain things. However, properly done, MIG is what most all aircraft kit manufacturers use. TIG is better and is the industry standard for good welds (although slow). Either MIG or TIG is better for reducing warping. This will become an issue in the finish-welding. You will notice longeron scalloping between fuselage stations after the finish-weld is done with gas.


I have three frames in my shop that are all TIG welded. I have also built several frames that were all MIG welded including Andy Keech's and Toru Ito's.

I have not used Oxy/Acetylene on any except for heating and bending.
 
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Hi Ron,

Thanks for the comments. On the intial recomendation to order one complete and then try it again with updated list would have actually had more reorders than we have now. When we find something missing we add it to the list and order enough for the other two. The parts we have made so far have actually worked out well without any remakes for incorrect drawings. This pretty much has been headed off because Rich looks at things before making them and knows when something isn't adding up. But when it comes to missing tubing if a person was to try to order off the parts list they would be ordering at least 2 times - longer than normal shipments because they are not found until we go to the parts list and see it isn't there in the first place.

I think actually, by ordering parts for three and leapfrogging materials that we aren't that far behind in shipping costs as a person who is doing it all by himself. Because of the reorders it is like us all ordering on our own, with us not saving on shipping as we thought we might. We tried to save money and order extra based on the first frame and the day after we got it we found out that we could have added something else to the order that we didn't know we didn't have because it wasn't on the parts list. Anyway, that portion is probably a wash, we thought it would help but it just didn't quite work out that way. BUT - we are keeping notes and are becoming very familiar with actual needs and things will be better for others in the future. Building them behind each other has actually been working out pretty decent.

The side frames are all made, I doubt there are any mistakes there. But now, we will soon be pulling the first frame off the vertical jig and will be starting the second. During this time we will only be able to work on that until that is ready to come off the Vertical. In other words we are actually leading one frame out and custom fitting. Then we will be starting 2nd as the first moves ahead. We are NOT doing everything x3. We are basically running one ahead and then backtracking when one gets WAY ahead. That is why we have one frame all tacked up ready to close the front and add gear brackets and 4 side frames just waiting till we need them. It is as close as we can get to assembly line without getting into a problem by not realizing everything other than brackets are still custom fit and custom cut.

On the second point you made Ron, I just wanted to be clear - other than the scalloping, they will be just as strong? Mine is just tacked and I might still have some options to pursue. I was just thinking of the scalloping on my SP and maybe that would look good (lol). Seriously though, you know I care and want things to be as good as they can so I am open to suggestions. If you think that it is a big mistake and that I would do better to get someone finish weld it without gas then I can do some more consideration time as it gets nearer.

The parts are so far working out and things are going together pretty decent. Just some snags here and there with some parts but nothing that any of us are upset about or anything. We are just thrilled to be seeing things come together so nicely.

How is your welder working out Ron? Does he want a finish weld job? If your concern is only possible warpage, I am planning on adding stringers to outside fuselage anyway which I think would hide most of the side frames anyway.

I am glad you are watching over us.
I appreciate it and it means alot to us!
Looking forward to Mentone and when you stop by to see us. jtm
 
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... we are keeping notes and are becoming very familiar with actual needs and things will be better for others in the future.

So you'll be writing up a list of erratta or a corrected parts list or something? (If you did it might not do me any good, since I'm thinking about a different model of LW, but it'd be worth having for comparison nonetheless.)
 
Little Wing Booster

Little Wing Booster

Hi ymmv?,

Yes, we are keeping notes. Any problems we encounter we are going to pass it on to Ron. He has done alot to demonstrate and put these designs out there. There are just some details that haven't been caught yet until now. He has done a wonderful job making these plans available and we appreciate him and his wonderful support and caring attitude.

We are giving these recomendations to him because we care also and want to see more of these birds flying and also want to share with him. The problem areas will affect materials on any frame you make. Nothing you wouldn't be able to figure out yourself, but ordering multiple times and waiting for parts you could have had does add up very quickly and slows production down proportionally. We are just aiming to improve things for future builders and to help update the plans to correct some details.

I have to say again, Ron provides excellent support and responce time whenever we have needed it. To take on such a project and to know he is just an email or phone call builds our confidence. We know we can't stray too far and know that if it is a photo we need emailed or a question of why something is done - One step at a time we are getting closer to completion because of his prompt, caring replies. It really has been a pleasure and honor working with Ron. jtm
 
Jim,

The finish-welding, done with gas will be fine. Piper, TaylorCraft and just about all tube and rag airplanes through the 1950's were welded with Oxy/Acetylene. The advantage they had was that the frames were well jigged with heavy-steel framework.
This held things straight. You will have yours free from the wood jigging when it is finish-welded so it may twist a bit.

What little warping will take place won't hurt a thing at all.

My only purpose for the other comments on welding were to point out that there are distinct advantages to MIG and TIG processes...with hardly any disadvantages.

My welder helper went to work for an aluminum boat factory for the summer. If you wanted your frame TIG welded, I'm sure I could book him back part-time. He does good work.

Yes, Rich is keeping a close eye on things. I hope you all aprreciate his efforts.

Sincerely,
Ron
 
Thanks Ron,

Since we have some time before the other 2 get done I will have time to see how things are going. As mentioned before, I probably will do some stringer work that would I think most likely hide any twist that may occur. I may be interested though in the Tig and it might be nice to know what kind of hours/cost there might be for finishing welding the tacked structure.

Also it seems stupid that I didn't even think about how things were done before mig/tig. I knew it was considered newer but cubs and whatnot being gas welded makes perfect sense. Anyway, I still appreciate the clarification on gas welding.

Looking forward to Mentone. Will only be there from Wed til Fri night as I have a Wedding for Sat again. jtm
 
Little Wing Booster Group

Little Wing Booster Group

This week found the horizontal jig put away. Rich's frame was on sawhorses. Bob said for me to go ahead and put my frame in the vertical jig that Rich just pulled his out of. Bob must be busy and wants to keep us moving forward.

Today I got the sideframes mounted vertical and some of the cross beams for cockpit floor. I attatched the tabs for the floorboards, the plate for the control cables and two sets of tabs for the one set of brake pedals. Since it seems popular to show aerial photos with feet showing - so I jumped up on the vertical jig to show you what I am talking about.

I will also attach a few photos of Rich's frame sitting next to the jig that is now being used for the second frame. It is starting to look like an aircraft shop around here finally. All those small parts now being assembled they make big parts that are resembling something exciting.

Anyway, a few shots of the progress as another week goes by....
 

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