listing of flight instructors wanted

[Doug Riley]

John: We shall see about that extinction thing. If ASC is willing to help, I see no reason why their BFI exemption FOR GYROS ONLY ought not to be renewed.

The original idea was eliminate PRA's training exemption, too, and dump everything into the Sport Pilot system. But obviously that can't be done as long as FAA won't allow the manufacture of SP gyros for use as trainers. So the PRA exemption lives on. The BFI waiver helps ease the instructor shortage a little. It ought to be renewed.

Given the ridiculous cost of SP-compliant FW trainers, Sport Pilot may severely restrict the availablility of training for FW, too. All those who want to fly SP planes may end up training in 152's; a nice boon for those who run FBO flight schools, but marginally appropriate training for someone who wants to fly a 350-lb. 2-place Quicksilver.

 

[jdalexa]

No argument here. I definitely forsee a major problem in a few years when the 2-seat UL's have to be put away for training. The cheapest factory LSA I've seen so far is in the $55K range.

I wish ASC and USUA luck, but FAA has never liked ultralights and the 2-seat training exemption was necessary for safety and sanity like our 5209 exemption. In the eyes of the FAA, they have now eliminated the need for the 2-seat exemption with Sport Pilot and LSA. Never mind the reality of life and finances that they conveniently ignore.

I think the gyro community is gonna be in deep doo-doo if any of the mfrs are able to make factory LSA gyros.

 

[mikegrady]

What is a LSA? I am just getting into this and I am guessing I will be starting in an ultralight.....only because of costs. Flying is greatly limited now, because of costs. I am willing to deal with the limitations of an ultralight simply because of its affordability. The government has a tendancy to make things worse. I fully respect the role of the FAA and what it provides us with regards to safety in commercial flight. As long as the ultralight pilots follow regulations, they should be able to retain their freedom. I really don't have a problem with ultralight pilots having to pass certain knowledge criteria. That isn't a bad thing. It will help insure that UL pilots know what limitations are necessary and present.

There are so many items that simply aren't spelled out to someone just looking in. For instance, what is a "populated area"? Where do you go to find out what airspace is restricted? Shouldn't an ultralight pilot be able to search out a designated area of flight on the internet or at an airfield so that he or she can be sure to within the law? Maybe I am just too new to this to know that these things are already in place but the searches I have done have not come up with the answers for me. I guess that is why I appreciate the fact that this forum is present so you guys and gals can set me right.

Rookie opinion,
Mike Grady

 

[jdalexa]

Hey Mike,

Something you seriously might consider is to attend a private pilot ground school. You will learn about airspace, weather, regulations, and such. Go to any FBO at an airport and inquire.

The definition of "densely populated" is sort of vague, but basically if you can't land without endangering persons or property, don't fly there.

The AOPA website https://www.aopa.org is a good place for finding where the various TFR (temporary flight restriction) show up. Especially important to keep up on out your way in case Dubya takes his TFR circus on the road in your area.

Being informed is vitally important these days with the government pulling on their jackboots and planting them on our necks.

 

[GyroChuck]

Mike, to learn more about Sport Pilot goto sportpilot.org

Take some time going thru the site. It should answer most questions.

 

[mikegrady]

Does the sprort pilot license mean that ultralight provision rule 103 is no longer applicable?
Thanks,
Mike Grady

 

[Dean_Dolph]

Does the sprort pilot license mean that ultralight provision rule 103 is no longer applicable?
Thanks,
Mike Grady

In short, nope!

 

[Doug Riley]

An LSA is a "light sport aircraft." It's defined by seat count, speed, complexity and weight limits in the regs.

If and when gyros are included in the LSA system*, a manufacturer will be able to sell ready-to-fly LSA gyros upon self-certifying that he has complied with the design, testing and manufacturing standards contained in the rules. In theory, once this type of manufacturing begins, all training will have to be given either in LSA gyros or in regular type-certified gyros. Homebuilt and ultralight trainers will no longer be allowed.

* The FAA has so far refused to allow gyros into the LSA system, although the standards have been drafted and passed by the industry committee. I believe the way the FAA left things with Greg Gremminger (committee chair) was that they'd like first to see more gyros in the fleet that are built to the standards, to see if the safety record improves.

Editorial opinion: It remains to be seen if LSA will be a boon or a mess to gyro flying. LSA gyros are going to be very expensive (check prices on the FW LSAs so far). What's more, there's added legal liability for the manufacturer. A manufacturer of an LSA gyro cannot hide behind the notion that the customer is the manufacturer, as kit sellers can. If a crash may conceivably be attributed to design/production defects, the manufacturer will be dierctly in the legal cross-hairs.

Once LSA kicks in, it also remains to be seen whether the loss of all those ultralight and experimental-class trainers will make the current shortage of affordable flight instruction worse.

 

[jdalexa]

Part 103 (ultralight) is essentially untouched. Except that in a few years, there won't be ultralight instructors. I think that falls under the heading of BAD idea though. Folks looking for ultralight instruction will have to go to Sport Pilot CFI's with their expensive LSA aircraft to get instruction - prices will be higher and most of those new factory LSA's don't fly a lot like a Quicksilver or Weedhopper.

EAA showed typical lack of forethought on that one when they ran over USUA and ASC.

... and FAA... well, they couldn't boil water even with a recipe.

 

[Doug Riley]

IMHO, EAA knew exactly what they were doing. For 25 years and more, their hostility and scorn for ultralights has been thick enough to cut with a knife. (Ditto for their thoughts about gyros, BTW.) The good ol' P-51 driver boys that own EAA simply haven't been able to get their brains around a simple idea: that some of us actually LIKE to fly unenclosed, slow aircraft for the sheer joy of it... not because we can't handle (or afford) anything "better," but because, for us, this type of flying is simply as good as it gets.

Come over to my garage and look through some old EAA mags from the 70's and 80's. Read the patronizing comments about "real airplane designs soon to be rising from the ashes of the ultralight movement." You'll get the picture. I can't count how many times I read that phrase or others like it from Dick Cavin, Paul Sr., Tony Bingelis and others before I finally cancelled my EAA membership.

I HOPE that ASC doesn't give up on its ultralight gyro training system. If FAA wants to re-certificate all the BFIs and AFIs as SP instructors, well, maybe that's the price of an admission ticket. But to require us also to use factory LS gyros would kill off the best and most appropriate type of instruction available for gyros.

Doug Riley (hoppin' mad BFI)

 

[jdalexa]

In my opinion, EAA has failed aviation as a whole. I canceled my membership with them back right after the so-called "Celebration of Flight" at Kitty Hawk. More like "Celebration of TFR's".

A 30-nm TFR to "celebrate flight" They had an opportunity to make a stand and a statement, but failed. EAA sucks - the national org, that is. Local chapters rock.

 

[automan1223]

Any, better than none.

Any, better than none.

It is kind of funny seeing the cost of some of the new sport LSA stuff. Parts cost lots of money and frankly I am wondering if all this huff and puff is just to push people in (boring) certificated aircraft. Prices and financing have come down to less than new SUV's.

General Aviation seems to have been on the ropes for a while and even more so since 911. They (the gov) threw them a bone with the "be a pilot" thing and then promptly canceled the Discovery "Wings" channel when goals were met. Thus turning their sights to the Millitary "recruitment" channel.

Gyros aways have been and always will be on the fringe of the mainstream for numerous reasons. And frankly I dont think that is such a bad idea. However the training thing has been the almost fatal flaw in the build it at home and go fly.

Mike, it was good to meet you and I wish we could have had more gyros at the fly in for you to see and at least 1 instructor to take you up. My first pilgrimage to a "gyro" fly in was Bensen days. I think I got a few greetings from people but I could not even secure myself a ride after driving 14 hours.....

The main problem being that gyro flight is somewhat seasonal and when it gets cold people usually call it a season and pack it up. Points south may have an extended season. On average I think most students had to travel an average of 8 hours each way to get instruction. It is well worth it and I strongly recommend as much as you can get, afford and experience before deciding on a plan. Do your homework make a deliberate and concerned study of what you want out of flight and then go for it. Fly in a sxs, tandem, etc. Ultralight comes with some limits but done right can be the best way to fly.

Jonathan Weis
Oriental NC

 

[Harry_S.]

Mike, it was good to meet you and I wish we could have had more gyros at the fly in for you to see and at least 1 instructor to take you up. My first pilgrimage to a "gyro" fly in was Bensen days. I think I got a few greetings from people but I could not even secure myself a ride after driving 14 hours.....

I screwed this quote up twice Jonathan.

I know that sucks...not getting an offer of a ride...but, when they look at the size of you, they may think that their machine would have a problem getting off the ground. Be cool.


Cheers