Lessons

Steve McGowan

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
2,517
Location
Macon Ga.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhh

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh

So how you like your Worms.. battered, soft fried, lil soup added..

The can you opened up still runnin over Flyer..

Yall have fun now ya hear..
 

automan1223

Banned
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
3,760
Location
Oriental, North Carolina
Aircraft
2p Tandem Air Command "Big Red"
Total Flight Time
250
Instructors

Instructors

I submit:

"The most important things you will learn from instructors are things you could never teach yourself........"

for some folks the definition of "experience" is defined as a long painful series of mistakes...
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
16,209
Location
Nipomo,California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
Wow I Stired a bit of debate. First I have owned my bensen B8m for 4 years Rite after I bought it I took it to our airport & had it checked out & basicly rebuilt. Mark M

Hello Mark, I was looking at the pictures of your Bensen. It appears that you don’t have a horizontal stabilizer or even the rock guard.

Many here on the forum feel that the addition of a horizontal stabilizer placed as far to the rear as practical would be a worthwhile addition, particularly for someone who is just learning.

In my opinion it would help to dampen pitch excursions.

I feel learning about it would be time well spent. You can use the search window on this site to find information pertaining to this.

Thank you, Vance
 

GrantR

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
1,329
Location
Plains, GA
Aircraft
Kolb MarkIII and a "Jake" Gyroplane
Total Flight Time
About 85 fixed wing 3 gyro
I have to disagree that training is as dangerous as or more dangerous than self instruction. Steve McGowan my instructor has a great track record due to the fact that none of his Students have been killed in gyroplane accidents. I know you can’t judge an instructor solely on this but it is a pretty good indication that Steve is able to weed out the ones that will never become competent pilots and is able to ingrain the important do’s and don’t of flying a gyro. Steve’s Parsons has a High Thrust line, high power, tail heavy blades and minimal Horizontal stabilizer.

This gyro by its nature is harder to fly than others. It demands right pedal, will porpoise, balloon nose up in gusts and all that good stuff that will kill you If you do the wrong thing. Training in a stable machine would make learning these characteristics impossible so if you trained in a dominator and went to a low rider air command that could end badly. However training in Steve’s Parsons makes the transition to a non stable or stable machine much easier.
 

Resasi

Gold Supporter
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
7,713
Location
London/ Kilifi Kenya
Aircraft
Gyrs, RAF 2000/Mgni/Bnsn/Hrnet/Mrlin/Crckt/MT-03/Lyzlle AV18-A/Prdtor. Pax ArrowCopter
Total Flight Time
100+ gyro, 16,000+ other
A definition of training might be, receiving the benefit of 'experience' in order to avoid, or minimize the pain a person might otherwise 'experience' themselves.
 

Steve McGowan

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
2,517
Location
Macon Ga.
kinda like

kinda like

A definition of training might be, receiving the benefit of 'experience' in order to avoid, or minimize the pain a person might otherwise 'experience' themselves.
Goin in for Plastic Surgery and finding out the Dr only works on hemoroides . OR Hermorrides. :rant::(

OUCHHH!

Well gotta get the point across somehow..
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
4,672
Location
Colorado front range
Aircraft
Bell 47G-3B-1 / A&S 18A / Phoebus C, etc.
Total Flight Time
stopped caring at 1000
Stargazers? Got a problem with Uranus?
 

Chuck Roberg

Gyro's are more fun
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
3,506
Location
Naperville, IL
Aircraft
SnoBird Tandem Gyro, Robinson R-22, Assorted Fixed Wing
Total Flight Time
1800
How many hours does one need to be safe, initially?
Thats sort of an open ended question. One may feel safe after 5 hours or 150 hours. How long till you felt you were "safe" in a FW. When you passed your PPL that only meant you were competent to fly. Not necessarily safe to fly.

Safe flying is part of the decision making process you use to evaluate yourself, aircraft and weather.

In my opinion, after 150 hours a pilot should have a good understanding of the aerodynamics of his/her gyro in various conditions. Also a good understanding of his/her capabilities in those conditions and how to react to them.

I'm sure you heard it before. Your always learning. Your ticket only gives you the right to carry a passenger as you continue learning.
 

Resasi

Gold Supporter
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
7,713
Location
London/ Kilifi Kenya
Aircraft
Gyrs, RAF 2000/Mgni/Bnsn/Hrnet/Mrlin/Crckt/MT-03/Lyzlle AV18-A/Prdtor. Pax ArrowCopter
Total Flight Time
100+ gyro, 16,000+ other
As Chuck has pointed out, so many variables apply. The individuals quality of instruction, their ability to assimilate the various skills involved, the machine they are flying, the conditions they regularly fly in, for example the density altitude in their location. How often he or she flies.

We have machines at our location where some owners turn up once or twice a year. Even higher time pilots have to re-acquaint themselves with their machines to become comfortable and 'safe'.

A low time pilot may have become a safe pilot initially but their skills may degrade with a long lay-off. So attention to flying safely applies all the way through from beginner to experienced pilots though this too is hugely variable with individual skills and experience.
 

scott heger

Custom-made Troublemaker
Joined
Dec 14, 2003
Messages
1,635
Location
Southern California
Aircraft
SportCopter Bell 206L-1
Total Flight Time
1350
GrantR, the example of using a instructors machine that is unstable, and therefor he can teach you how to handle it is just a lousy excuse for poor training equipment. I trained at SportCopter in there original two place trainer, and it was very stable, just underpowered. The new trainer (I have also flown) has plenty of power yet can still be used for more advanced flying techniques, like spins etc. I flew in another CFI's machine long ago, and though it was well built and maintained, it was unstable. He would not allow speeds over 45-50 mph, it was pitch unstable, and generally not much fun to fly in any wind. It also took much longer to learn as a new student, because you were always fighting to control it. The bottom line is a stable trainer makes for a shorter training period, good for the student, maybe not so for the instructor$$$$.

Scott Heger,Laguna Niguel,Ca N86SH
 

Minnesota_Mike

Active Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
1,151
Location
Panama City, Panama
Quote:
"How many hours does one need to be safe, initially?"

I understand the context of the asked question...but I think that elaboration is needed.
It doesn't take too long to feel "comfortable", and that time frame is different from person to person- and machine to machine.

Myself...I never want to let my "guard" down to feel complacently "safe". Safety is an ongoing process at all times of vigilance...the moment you feel safe, you've lost some level of "awareness" of those things that will keep you "safe" or can kill you.
Complacency and flying are dangerous bedfellows...vigilance is cheap insurance.
 

GraemeClarke

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2004
Messages
187
Location
Blenhiem, New Zealand
Aircraft
Rosco/ Bruty
Total Flight Time
110
third way

third way

Gidday All,
I think that the real question here is how do you learn to fly a gyro when training is not easily accessible.
I often fly with Bruce (oldsparky). I learnt to fly by a simular method. Neither of us were instructurerless, and neither of us learnt to fly in issolation. Both of us were involved with the gyro community before and during the construction of our machines, and learning to fly. We both got 2 seat instruction time when and where we could. In my case I had 5 hours over 3 years in 3 different machines with 4 different instructers. Here in NZ we are lucky if we have 2 instructers at any given time, often there are none. Many have gone to Aussi for instruction. We both have legal tickets, which means that our skills have been judged by a qualified person to be good enough to fly. Both our machines are legal. We are not Cowboys
What I got from the instruction was how a gyro should feel and react. And I was after information. I did not learn to fly, other than driving around the sky. I learnt to fly my machine by following the powered section of the Bensen manual. I think the goal of instruction has to change from "learning to fly", to imparting enough skill and information to start the Bensen program. That is, an updated alternative to the towed glider section of the Bensen manual. In my veiw this way of learning to fly has to be reconized and formally structured if we want to get more people flying gyro's
Graeme
 

theschultz

Newbie
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
29
Location
BALTIMORE
I appreciate all of your responses. To be more specific, how long (how many hours) did it take you to solo? I suppose that would be a more relative benchmark for all of us to identify with.
 

oldsparky

Newbie
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
99
Location
Kaiapoi New Zealand
Aircraft
own design/build gyro
Total Flight Time
300
just checked my log book....
I did 3 hrs trying to learn to fly a microlight 3 axis, in 1998, waste of time.

I did 2 hrs in a Parsons with a large HS. We flew out to a valley where the wind was about 30 kn, occasionaly gusting to 45 and when the clouds of dust in the riverbed below arrived so did the gust hit us. Note what happens the instructor said, the gyro would gently rise then remain steady, with our shadow on the ground not progressing.

I did 1 hr in Ballarat in another Parsons with a piece of bent alu for a HS, 1 hr in calm conditions porpiosing all over the sky.

This demonstrated to me the importance of an effective HS. this was in 1998.

I began training in my own gyro with ground instruction in 2000, and after 6 hr was doing short hops, and circuits to 200 feet after 10.5 hrs.

My gyro has a very effective HS, and good suspension,

How long till safe? you should always be safe. the last get together I attended had a bomb drop competition, min ht 50 ft I think, so people were going near near zero airspeed at 50 ft, to improve their chances. this was organised by an instructor. I avoid this kind of bs so did not know what was going on until it started, and was not impressed as this was happening close to my motorhome. The point I am making is you can always be tempted to do some thing silly no matter how many hrs you have, the answer is to set a high standard to your own flying.

safe flying
Bruce
 

GraemeClarke

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2004
Messages
187
Location
Blenhiem, New Zealand
Aircraft
Rosco/ Bruty
Total Flight Time
110
training

training

Gidday,
It took about a year of weekends before i did a circuit. 2 of us were learning together. Not Bruce. With 2 of us it was great fun.
Graeme
 
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