KB3 tail

Mike Jackson

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I may purchase a KB3 with only the classic all flying VS. I want to modify with a HS with it in prop wash. I am looking for all suggestions. Haven't ruled out tall tail but am leaning to a large cruciform design. I like the design Ron Herron used to make. I also like the old flat plate look seen on some. Am also considering some seen/made by the GyroBee folks at StarBee. Maybe Jake can pipe in....love his work. Thanks
 

gyrojake

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Hey Mike,

There are a lot of tail designs out there to choose from.
Each one has their good points and bad points.
To come to the point without much review of your gyro and your flying skills would be hard.

To be on the safe side, I would go with a tail manufactured with a proven design.
RFD's tall tail is the easiest to acquire and get help with.

You will have the benefit of P-factor cancellation and a horizontal stab in the prop wash.
The KB/3 is a natural HTL machine and this will help tame the beast.

They are lighter than a fiberglass tail and hold up to normal conditions well.

I myself like a short tail and low stab, because of the aesthetics, but my machines are CLT.

What ever you choose to use, remember, if you do not convert your machine to CLT make sure your stab is in the prop wash.
I believe this is the way to go for your application.

After you complete your mods, remember to hang test your gyro.

This is only my opinion which may not be right.
I hope others will chime in to offer you other options.
 

Mike Jackson

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Thanks Jake. I have flown Air Commands - both HTL and CLT. I just sold a modified RAF (CLT). The current owner has lots of time in this KB3 but does not see the need for a HS. Says he just backs off on speed with aft stick when it gets "twitchy". I get the science but see the entire gambit from no mod/no HS to a drop keel mod with Tall tail. Decisions,decisions. The latter seems the safest overall but I see a number flying with no drop keel using Tall tail which I like.
 

Mike484

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This made me realize that I haven't posted any pictures of mine recently and I need to do so.

I elected to go with the RFD 58" tail and have been happy with it (not flying yet though).

Ron Menzie also built one with the RFD tail (his is currently for sale)
 

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Mike Jackson

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Thanks Mike,

I like the look and may get with Ernie. Did you design the support from the cheek plates to the tall tail top? I enjoyed the tall tail on my RAF and felt a noticeable difference in rudder requirements having flown a few STD Air Commands. I have seen Ron's KB3 having visited and trained with him in AR. It is a very nice machine with a 532. He says it handles nicely. Cheers, Mike
 

Mike484

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I got the upper arm from Ernie too.
 

Roundwing

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Here is what I did initially with mine and it has worked try well.

I had to put in 3 degrees nose down (leading edge down 3 degrees) to get it to trim hands off.

Sheared out of .125 2024 aluminum.
 

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C. Beaty

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Charlie Presnell (Airboss Charlie at SRC flyins for many years) had one of the early KB-3s with hard linked rudder/nosewheel.

Charley nearly flipped it over the first few times he flew it until I made up soft coupling for him.

The tall tail offers many advantages when properly implemented; the antiservo tab must be connected in accordance with RFD instructions. If not, you’re likely to have a tail wagger.

The tall tail provides some propeller torque compensation and just as important, doesn’t get batted sideways from dipping just in the lower half of the mini-whirlwind coming off the prop. The first thing you’ll notice is that you don’t have to perform the rudder pedal toe dance during the takeoff roll.
 

Mike484

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Chuck, do you think it helps to tip (talking about an RFD tail) the tail a little forward to add some degree of down angle on the HS. I was thinking about a 2 - 3 degree but not sure if it will actually buy me anything.
 

C. Beaty

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I doubt if you’ll notice much difference, Mike. But you might give Ernie a call, he’s played around with various angles on low riders.

* This is painful for me; my high speed connection is down and I’m using dialup on a noisy telephone line.
 

Mike Jackson

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Thanks guys. I've experienced the advantageous effect of the tall tail but I like the aesthetics of Rick's cruciform aluminum tail....kiss principle meets old school. I haven't found the extra rudder work objectionable. I looked at two KB3s today. It appeared the keel lengths aft of the prop (same engine) were different +\- 4 inches using my feet as a measuring device....no tape measure available. Not having any drawings, I was wondering if anyone has this dimension? I'm interested in comparing tail volumes. Thanks again.
 

Brent_Brown

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I would want to know if they both came from kits is one sorter than the other? My avatar is a KB 2 convert for a 532, 60" IVO, and tall tail. very nice flying gyro when I was 220 pounds.
 

Roundwing

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Another view.

I did not have anything to go from except what I thought gave me a good amount of surface area and looked right.
 

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cloudhopper

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Hey guys. Can someone tell me where I can get the horizontal stab for my bensen. I have the same tail as this red and yellow one. I just need the stab and hardware. That one would fit right on my bensen. I need one soon preferably before fly ln at El Mirage. Thanks.
 

Butch

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This made me realize that I haven't posted any pictures of mine recently and I need to do so.

I elected to go with the RFD 58" tail and have been happy with it (not flying yet though).

Ron Menzie also built one with the RFD tail (his is currently for sale)
With the tail that high. Is there a chance for the roter to hit it?
 

Butch

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With the tail that high. Is there a chance for the roter to hit it?
Never mind I just looked at the picture. M only concern is that the Mac on my stock bensen sits lower than yours which puts the stab above the center of prop
 

Butch

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Another view.

I did not have anything to go from except what I thought gave me a good amount of surface area and looked right.
Did you make the one side longer do to the tail mounted to the left side of the keel or does that not matter?
 

PW_Plack

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Butch, you may need to be patient for a reply, or try contacting these guys directly. This thread is six years old.

It's not uncommon to have tails mounted to one side, or the front mounted to one side of the keel and the back to the other to create a slight diagonal, to compensate for effects of the propwash against the tail. The asymmetry it creates doesn't appear to cause problems.
 

Butch

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Here is what I did initially with mine and it has worked try well.

I had to put in 3 degrees nose down (leading edge down 3 degrees) to get it to trim hands off.

Sheared out of .125 2024 aluminum.
Is that a VW motor. I am looking to replace my Mac and it looks like you do not have a gear box which looks to sit at the same height as the mac
 
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