Interested in gyro ultralight around $10K?

Interested in gyro ultralight around $10K?

  • Yes

    Votes: 50 80.6%
  • No

    Votes: 12 19.4%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .

robjustin

wannabe builder/pilot
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
57
Location
Bozeman, MT
Ultra light gyro frame

Ultra light gyro frame

I'm really interested to hear more about the possible project--I hope that you'll keep us informed, here.

Have you thought of offering a pre-assembled (maybe with landing gear as a 'sub-assembly' or...?) frame-only option so that those of us interested in building an ultralight would have another avenue? This would definitely interest me and then the 10k price-point would be up to my discretion and choices...

Thanks for your consideration! -Rob
 

Russ Hobbs

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Apr 16, 2008
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Rob (robjustin) and Larry (Dimwit), nice to hear from you both, welcome back
 

Hallofo

Pawn in the game of life.
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Springfield, OR
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Dominator- In my wet dreams.
I voted "yes", but I have long since come to the conclusion that I might as well bite the bullet and get my License and N-number. Here is why:

1. I'm a Big Boy (6"3' ish, 230 or so pounds)

2. I can only get the $$$ from the Minister of Finance for ONE "flying toy" (as she calls them) so whatever I buy/build its going to be it for a while.

3. Since I can only get ONE Gyro, it has to fit all or most of my needs so I MUST have a robust suspension, pre-rotator and several other bells and whistles for rough field/short field landings.

All these factors conspire against me and my original plan for a real "ultralight". Instead, I'll get myself a Dominator and fly that sucker 'till the cows come home (after I install lights and get IFR training, that is).

Back on the original idea though: Just remember that WHATEVER you build, if it's designed for the "masses" as an entry-level bird, it HAS to be close to perfect. If a few yahoo's get in a cheap (as in: "inexpensive and easy to purchase") gyro and end up proving that they are not, in fact, Tom Cruise flying an F-14 and end life as a smoking hole in the ground, it will reflect badly on the entire sport. The CNN headline will not be "random stupid person, flying a yyy brand gyrocopter crashes". It will be more like "unsafe 'ultralight' aircraft crashes, kills pilot".

I guess my main point is that maybe it's a good thing our aircraft are a bit pricey, just like high-end sports cars and the like. If someone is going to invest the time and money in a $15,000 hobby, chances are he (or she) will also drop some coin on good training.
 

Fl90

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I haven't visited much lately.

Safety and useability don't need to be sacrificed with an ultralight gyro.

Necesity and nicety need to seperated.

One can fly all day from place to place in an ultralight.

Properly made, such as a Bensen, an ultralight is a good trainer as well.

Flying without a prerotator gives one a great understanding of the rotor.

Building a sound ultralight for less than $10,000 is very doable. Producing a sound ultralight to be sold for less than $10,000 would be difficult. Getting people to pay for something they said they would buy when polled is another mountain.

There are some 50 votes to buy an ultralight for $10,000.

If I knew, KNEW, that I could sell 50 ultralights for $10,000 each, I would.

Unfortunately, each of the 50 prospects has a "picture" of what they want, realistic or unrealistic, and they're all different.

Not everyone that says they'll pay $10,000 is able.

A descent motor, new, is $5,000 plus. A set of Sportrotors is at least $2,000. If the builder spent a week to build, set up, and test the machine, it would need to pull $1,000 in gross profit. That generously leaves $2,000 for EVERYTHING else.

If there were 50 purchases guaranteed, and you had time to spare with equipment idle, it'd be worth it.....barely.

If anybody does produce a new ultralight gyro for $10,000, my hat is off to them.

Phil.
 

Friendly

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Woodworth, LA.
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1. Cheapest new Dominator is over 16 grand now. And that is a very basic unit. Perhaps with Rotax LOWERING prices lately with the Euro going down to the dollar, you might be able to get a new Ultrawhite for less, but not likely. Aircommands are no doubt more than Dominators, they always were in the past.

2. The battery and motor and controller, plus the right kind of charger would most likely cost over 10 grand by itself, not to mention the cost of the airframe and blades and so on.


Tim what you need is to build a GyRonimo..... cost me about 5 grand to build using a mix of new and used parts. Should be no problem for a company like Sportcopter to build a clone of my gyro, new for around 10 grand. It flew me great with a 503, and I would expect it would still fly good with a cheaper 447
What was the true weight of the GyRonimo?
 

Georgi

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Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
332
Location
Woodland ,CA
Aircraft
gyro " Ultralight Bandit"
Talking about ultralights.Muffler on my Rotax 503 weighs a TON . Well,at least 10 lb. Do you know anybody who tried to make it lighter?
Thank you. Georgi.
 

GyroDoug

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It can be done!

It can be done!

We all agree that it is going to be very hard to hit the weight goal and the cost goal. I am confidant that the weight goal can be met but there would have to be some big changes in pricing to be able to hit the price goal.

The AIXRO 50 (single rotor, go-cart racing, rotary engine) produces 48 HP and weighs 35 lbs. This engine would be a perfect engine for an ultralight aircraft, however it isn't cheap and it would cost $5,000 all by it's self. (and it needs a PSRU designed for it) I believe a very stable and safe airframe could be produced with advanced composites (like carbon fiber) and weigh almost nothing, but again these materials are expensive and require a certain level of expertise to be able to produce quality parts. I don't think they could be manufactured cheaply. Although if a person were to get trained and have the skills to lay up the frame himself you could do it for just the cost of materials and that would help some, but the good stuff is still expensive to buy. If a person had enough money to throw at it, I have no doubt a very nice Gyro could be made to come in under the weight limit. But the person who can figure out how to do all that and still keep it affordable is going to have a very viable business opportunity.

Gyro Doug
 

Resasi

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100+ gyro, 16,000+ other
And that was with a foot under the gyro keeping it up.
 

gyro-3xio

Senior Member
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Messages
283
Location
London, Ontario
Electric gyro??

Electric gyro??

It all must start somewhere.
An electric gyro has merit.
B747's were not built in 1910. Aviation had to evolve to the point of the
747.

An electric gyro would do the same.
Perhaps the first set of batteries would allow an electric gyro to remain aloft for 20 minutes.
But when they need to be replaced with a new set, batteries too evolve, and range will be improved.

Will manufacturers produce better batteries in the future? Yes. Look at the past and see how they have improved to this point.

The investment will prove itself viable. Perhaps in 4 - 5 years the same gyro will remain aloft for 30 to 45 minutes with newer batteries. And so forth.

One further thought. The gyro glider has no "range" at all. It is used as a training device. We accept that. Perhaps an electric gyro would be a perfect, safe, ab-initio training device.

I dream of driving a Porche. But I drive a Civic. That still makes me a driver.
What if the gyro dreamers opt for the cheaper electric gyro, because it is within the reach of many. I see PRA memberships increasing with these new gyronauts.

It's all about getting new people into this sport,.. and more importantly,... into the air. Jim Vanek may just be that individual.

Jim.
 

danmcgee

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I agree with you all I am currently working on the very same thing, trying different variations to find what is going to work best for the best weight advantage. I hope to have a new aircraft out around the new year that will be truly and Ultralite beginner version and looking to be under 8K. Now I know what most will say not possible but I do so love a challenge.

Airframe is worked out, tail feathers done, flight controls are a re build an modification of the KB seen on the forum already be looking for new pic this weekend for the correction that were suggested. Rotor head and pre-rotator will be my next project to fix. Then the new bird will be done and a total weight and build cost can be determined.

Dan I am cheap and simple but will not sacrofice safety for simplicity and cost.
 

Rotor Rooter

Dave Jackson
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It all must start somewhere.

It will!


IMHO, the low cost and weight of small electric motors will result in recreational rotorcraft that are hybrid gyrocopter/helicopters. They will be craft with some split of partial power to the rotor and partial power to the propulsor.

Perhaps, there will eventually be a section on the Rotary Wing Forum that is dedicated to the development and building of lightweight electric powered rotorcraft.

It is starting.

Dave
 
Last edited:

giro5

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My 2 cents is I do not think it will sell well. Would a Lightning sell well if it were priced at 10K? A good lighter than bensen style (need to plan on at least a 503 rotax) prebuilt frame, wheel kit, control kit, tail, motor mount and simple rotor head would sell as well as anything which also might not be too many units. Look at Starbee kits. When people figure out the cost of training, its limited availability as to location the "cheapskates" like me really wonder if it is worth it.

If one wants to make something like this go I think every PRA chapter needs to start boom training, and towed glider training, and heavily recruiting new prospects to get new people far enough along to get them interested enough to spend the money to complete their training. IF a lot of people became trained then there would be a market.

People who can afford a 16K to 30K gyro can probably and will afford training. Its the wannabes with $2-5 K that you can't reach. They will buy some parts and start building but that is about it.

A lot of people who can't afford 10K outright would buy if it could be financed but what are the chances of that.
 

Resasi

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London/ Kilifi Kenya
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Gyrs, RAF 2000/Mgni/Bnsn/Hrnet/Mrlin/Crckt/MT-03/Lyzlle AV18-A/Prdtor. Pax ArrowCopter
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100+ gyro, 16,000+ other
2 cents coming in.

If you can get airborne safely, comfortably, for 12-16 K you are doing well. Be glad be prepared to register and get an N number.

If you wish to go cheaper, ultralight is possible but be prepared to pare to the bone, learn to fly on the bare minimum. It can be done.

Either way be safe, enjoy.
 

danmcgee

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giro5 you exactly correct. I do not the kind of money that most must make to buy these wounderfull flying lawn chairs. So that is the reason I am working on the poormans gyro. Safety has to be at the forfront of the development and can not be scempt on one bit. But I think I have come up with a way to reduce the cost tremendously. Stay tuned for more info.
 

All_In

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Not sure over 10,000+ logged FW, 260+ ultralights, sailplane, hang-gliders
I agree with you all I am currently working on the very same thing, trying different variations to find what is going to work best for the best weight advantage. I hope to have a new aircraft out around the new year that will be truly and Ultralite beginner version and looking to be under 8K. Now I know what most will say not possible but I do so love a challenge.

Airframe is worked out, tail feathers done, flight controls are a re build an modification of the KB seen on the forum already be looking for new pic this weekend for the correction that were suggested. Rotor head and pre-rotator will be my next project to fix. Then the new bird will be done and a total weight and build cost can be determined.

Dan I am cheap and simple but will not sacrofice safety for simplicity and cost.
Great news Dan!

Post pictures, please...
 

gyro-3xio

Senior Member
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Messages
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London, Ontario
DC motor costs?

DC motor costs?

Just had a thought. This is by no means my field of expertise.

If a Rotax 503 costs in the neighbourhood of $5000.

What would one get for $3000 for a DC motor???

If the Rotax is 50hp, how many hp would one need with a DC motor?
I know it's not the same.

Jim.
 

GyroDoug

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Jim,

I don't think the DC Motor is that expensive. It is the Controller and the Batteries that are going to bring the cost up. THe electric motor is what makes an electrical aircraft so desireable. Small, light, less expensive, smoth running, quiet, reliable and long lasting, those are all pretty desireable attributes in a power plant and the electric engine has them all. If there were just a good way to store the electrical power (or generate it) that wasn't heavy and expensive. I am confidant there will be great growth in this area over the next few years so it is exciting to think about what the future holds for us in this arena.

Gyro Doug
 

Ron E

Just Want To Have Fun!
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Lillian, AL, USA
A new (all new parts) and "safe" gyro for $10,000 USD, ready to fly is not reasonable in the current gyro market. Gyros are a "specialty aircraft" and not in high demand right now. The uneducated potential prospect is generally afraid of them. Maybe someone in China will see this thread and start making them (with labor provided by their prison system).

The price I'm trying to meet on the tractor Ultralight Rotor Scooter is $12,000 for a complete "bolt-together" package (All parts-No fabrication) and $14,000 Ready to fly (Just add training, fuel and fly) with the MZ 202 engine and RFD rotor head and rotor blades.

It just takes money to buy the good stuff that goes into such a machine.

Personally, I like the idea of electric cars, but not so much for a flying machine.
 
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