Inspection question

Roger Lee

Newbie
Joined
Feb 3, 2023
Messages
27
Location
Tucson, AZ
Hi All,
Do all the Gyro or rotor craft Mfg's provide a maintenance inspection checklist usually found in the maintenance manual.
 
I was always good at taking standardized tests. One thing you could be quite sure of, is that when you see "all" in the question, the answer is very likely going to be "false".
Then, remember that in most cases (at least in the US) the gyro "manufacturer" (I assume that's what you mean by "Mfg") is a person, not a company.
 
You can modify/use the FAA "APPENDIX D TO FAR PART 43 - SCOPE AND DETAIL OF ITEMS (AS APPLICABLE TO THE PARTICULAR AIRCRAFT) TO BE INCLUDED IN ANNUAL AND 100-HOUR INSPECTIONS" for your conditional inspection. If one is not provided by the manufacturer.

I have modified it for my Gyro and use it for each conditional inspection. Then keep it in a binder.
 

Attachments

  • ANNUAL AND 100-HOUR INSPECTION CHECKLIST.pdf
    27.7 KB · Views: 11
I meant Gyro Mfg.
Do they supply an annual / 100 hr. checklist in a maintenance manual?
IFFFF the Gyro or light sport aircraft MFG has its own annual / 100 hr. checklist you must use that and can not substitute the very general list from Part 43. Listing Part 43 as your checklist instead of the aircraft MFG's checklist can and will cause legal issues with the FAA and courts. Each aircraft can and does have difference and part 43 wouldn't cover those individual specific items. I see this far more than I should and it has always meant whomever did the inspection missed items.

This is like the IRS for taxes. You can claim anything you want and for years too maybe, but if they check or audit you you're toast. Why open a door that your legal document logbook can't close.
 
Last edited:
I meant Gyro Mfg.
Do they supply an annual / 100 hr. checklist in a maintenance manual?
IFFFF the Gyro or light sport aircraft MFG has its own annual / 100 hr. checklist you must use that and can not substitute the very general list from Part 43. Listing Part 43 as your checklist instead of the aircraft MFG's checklist can and will cause legal issues with the FAA and courts. Each aircraft can and does have difference and part 43 wouldn't cover those individual specific items. I see this far more than I should and it has always meant whomever did the inspection missed items.

This is like the IRS for taxes. You can claim anything you want and for years too maybe, but if they check or audit you you're toast. Why open a door that your legal document logbook can't close.
Silverlight provided one with my AR-1. I use the Rotax manual's checklist for the engine part of the annual condition inspection.
George
 
IFFFF the Gyro or light sport aircraft MFG has its own annual / 100 hr. checklist you must use that and can not substitute the very general list from Part 43. Listing Part 43 as your checklist instead of the aircraft MFG's checklist can and will cause legal issues with the FAA and courts. Each aircraft can and does have difference and part 43 wouldn't cover those individual specific items. I see this far more than I should and it has always meant whomever did the inspection missed items.

This is like the IRS for taxes. You can claim anything you want and for years too maybe, but if they check or audit you you're toast. Why open a door that your legal document logbook can't close.
For an EAB, the individual builder is the "manufacturer", not the company that sold you a kit. You create your own documentation, and can adopt the suggestions of the kit company if you wish, or not. You should certainly adapt any manuals to suit your own variations, modifications, and flight testing results.
 
Last edited:
I feel your question would be better answered if you would be specific about what gyroplane you have.

There is little consistency from one kit manufacture to another and as J,R. pointed out correctly the builder is the manufacture.

I fly a one of a kind gyroplane (The Predator) that I did not build.

I create the POH and the maintenance schedule I go.

The FAA looks at The Predator and her paperwork very closely because I have flown in 16 air shows and have a letter of deviation authority (I can charge people money for teaching them to fly in her).
 

Attachments

  • 1s.jpg
    1s.jpg
    103.8 KB · Views: 1
I know Roger and he is asking a Generic question.

In my opinion the newer Gyros, kit ot not, that are being acquired and registered as X-AB have a detailed maintenance checklist. That should be used and if the owner needs to add to it, then go for it.

My checklist, coupled with the Rotax service info is all that's necessary.

If you find something that should be added, then add it!

Bobby
 
I'm just asking a general question. I actually don't know the answer. I'm not sure what each rotorcraft comes with pertaining to its maintenance or a annual checklist.
 
So why are you asking the question?
You must have something specific in mind.

If the kit provider has a checklist then you would need to use that, otherwise you can use one similar to the one suggested by Chuck.
Modified as necessary to include those items that apply to your aircraft.

Rick
 
If the aircraft has a standard airworthiness certificate it must be maintained and inspected IAW manufacturer's guidance and any applicable FAA instructions. Special airworthiness certificate aircraft, other than EAB and ELSA, have similar rules.

EAB and ELSA aircraft will have a statement similar to the following as part of their operating limitations:

22. No person may operate this aircraft unless within the preceding 12 calendar months it has had a condition inspection performed in accordance with the scope and detail of FAR 43 Appendix D, or other FAA-approved programs, and was found to be in a condition for safe operation. As part of the condition inspection, cockpit instruments must be appropriately marked and needed placards installed in accordance with FAR 91.9. In addition, system-essential controls must be in good condition, securely mounted, clearly marked, and provide for ease of operation. This inspection will be recorded in the aircraft logbook and maintenance records.

23. Condition inspections must be recorded in the aircraft logbook and maintenance records showing the following, or a similarly worded, statement: “I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in accordance with the scope and detail of FAR 43 Appendix D, and was found to be in a condition for safe operation.” The entry will include the aircraft’s total time-in-service (cycles if appropriate), and the name, signature, certificate number, and type of certificate held by the person performing the inspection.

I think we become confused when we see the word "manufacturer." Silverlight, TAG, ELA, are not manufacturers of aircraft. They manufacture kits, or parts, but not aircraft. They can publish maintenance manuals, operating manuals, assembly manuals and other information, but the "manufacturer," the guy or gal that builds the aircraft, is not required to follow the guidance therein.

I think, for the most part, I've just parroted Roger and JR.

Jim
 
Last edited:
Hi Rick,
The reason I wanted to know was I was going to post an article about some mechanics that do annual inspections on different aircraft like rotorwing and LSA. Then they write in the logbook that they did an inspection according to the Part 43 checklist when there is a published checklist from the aircraft / engine MFG. It's more common than many think. Overall inspection language is under Part 43, but not necessarily to use that checklist. The Part 43 FAA checklist is very general and compared to a published aircraft MFG checklist for an inspection it would fall way short and you'd leave items out that are specific to that aircraft. FAA says if the aircraft MFG has a published checklist you must use that one and not the Part 43 checklist.

So I was just trying to educate myself on rotorwing annual inspections and on whether the rotorwing MFGs all published their own inspection checklist. I figured there were several different rotorwing pilots here with different aircraft that would chime in on whether their Mfg published its own checklist.
 
What I am about to say pertains only to the 582 because that's the EAB engine I'm most familiar with. What is surprising to me, is Rotax puts a tremendous amount of work in developing and publishing their maintenance/inspection pubs. I cannot remember meeting a single amateur builder that went by the factory program for maintenance and inspection on the 582! I always stuck to it religiously. I am proud to say I have almost 700 hours of flight on Rotax 2-Strokes, in fixed-wings and helicopters, and I have NEVER had to make an emergency landing, a precautionary landing, or a power off landing. I always removed the jugs and decarboned the piston ring grooves, very close to every 50 hours as recommended by BRP. 1712150527132.png How many of you have always done that? We had one instructor at the local airport who always talked about how many Rotax's had failed on him. He had given several thousand hours dual in a FliteSTAR that had a 582 and had experienced 7 or 8 engine failures in it. I asked him once "A lot of people seek you for advice. Do you decarbon every 50?" He said..."That's not necessary." I replied "It's possible that it's helped me to never have one quit on me."
 
So why are you asking the question?
You must have something specific in mind.

If the kit provider has a checklist then you would need to use that, otherwise you can use one similar to the one suggested by Chuck.
Modified as necessary to include those items that apply to your aircraft.

Rick
Magni has both an annual/100 hr condition inspection checklist, as well as the Rotax one. If you buy a Magni, they also provide acces to a 'Magnipedia' website that has all the manuals, parts lists, POH, SB's, and other documentation needed for your specific aircraft. Very nice.
 
I know I'm departing from the original question, but it is related. This impacts most of us, so here's an example: The tale of three aircraft.

We'll use the Van's RV-12 as our example.

Three identical aircraft sitting on the ramp. one SLSA, one ELSA, and one EAB.

Who can maintain the aircraft? In all three cases, anyone can maintain the aircraft.

Who can conduct the condition inspection?

SLSA RV-12: an A&P or LSRM.

ELSA RV-12: an A&P, LSRM, or LSRI for that specific aircraft.

EAB RV-12: an A&P, or original builder holding a repairman's certificate for that specific aircraft. A LSRM cannot inspect this aircraft, and a LSRI certificate cannot be obtained for this aircraft.

Jim
 
Last edited:
The Part 43 FAA checklist is very general and compared to a published aircraft MFG checklist for an inspection it would fall way short and you'd leave items out that are specific to that aircraft. FAA says if the aircraft MFG has a published checklist you must use that one and not the Part 43 checklist.

I'm sorry, but that is incorrect. For EAB aircraft of all types, all that is REQUIRED is that you must inspect the aircraft in accordance with the scope and detail of FAR43 appendix d inspection checklist. You must, or should (?), retain the checklist until it is superseded. As stated by others, YOU are the manufacturer of the aircraft. You may use another approved checklist as long as it complies with the FAA FAR43 app d checklist. I always provided a digital copy of the checklist when I was a DAR for 23 years. A digital 43 d checklist can be modified as long as you include the scope and detail of 43 d, in fact you would be foolish not to adapt the approved checklist 43 d !

 
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-43

43.15 Additional performance rules for inspections.

(a) General. Each person performing an inspection required by part 91, 125, or 135 of this chapter, shall—

(1) Perform the inspection so as to determine whether the aircraft, or portion(s) thereof under inspection, meets all applicable airworthiness requirements; and

(2) If the inspection is one provided for in part 125, 135, or § 91.409(e) of this chapter, perform the inspection in accordance with the instructions and procedures set forth in the inspection program for the aircraft being inspected.

(b) Rotorcraft. Each person performing an inspection required by Part 91 on a rotorcraft shall inspect the following systems in accordance with the maintenance manual or Instructions for Continued Airworthiness of the manufacturer concerned:

(1) The drive shafts or similar systems.

(2) The main rotor transmission gear box for obvious defects.

(3) The main rotor and center section (or the equivalent area).

(4) The auxiliary rotor on helicopters.

(c) Annual and 100-hour inspections.

(1) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall use a checklist while performing the inspection. The checklist may be of the person's own design, one provided by the manufacturer of the equipment being inspected or one obtained from another source. This checklist must include the scope and detail of the items contained in appendix D to this part and paragraph (b) of this section.

(2) Each person approving a reciprocating-engine-powered aircraft for return to service after an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that approval, run the aircraft engine or engines to determine satisfactory performance in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations of—

(i) Power output (static and idle r.p.m.);

(ii) Magnetos;

(iii) Fuel and oil pressure; and

(iv) Cylinder and oil temperature.

(3) Each person approving a turbine-engine-powered aircraft for return to service after an annual, 100-hour, or progressive inspection shall, before that approval, run the aircraft engine or engines to determine satisfactory performance in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations.
 
Hi Rick,
The reason I wanted to know was I was going to post an article about some mechanics that do annual inspections on different aircraft like rotorwing and LSA. Then they write in the logbook that they did an inspection according to the Part 43 checklist when there is a published checklist from the aircraft / engine MFG. It's more common than many think. Overall inspection language is under Part 43, but not necessarily to use that checklist. The Part 43 FAA checklist is very general and compared to a published aircraft MFG checklist for an inspection it would fall way short and you'd leave items out that are specific to that aircraft. FAA says if the aircraft MFG has a published checklist you must use that one and not the Part 43 checklist.

So I was just trying to educate myself on rotorwing annual inspections and on whether the rotorwing MFGs all published their own inspection checklist. I figured there were several different rotorwing pilots here with different aircraft that would chime in on whether their Mfg published its own checklist.
Roger,

Are any of those mechanics in Texas? Preferably Central Texas. My A&P that did my owner-assist inspections retired and I haven't found anyone else locally that will inspect an Experimental. I have 2 that are due. A tandem gyro with a Subaru and a Rans S10 with 582.

Thanks,
Eric
 
So.... is "MFG" supposed to be short for "manufacturer"? What does the G stand for, exactly?
 
Top