info about dominator with viking turbo engine

Ernie_B

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tampa fl.
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Rick, you, along with others seem to think that all improvements should be at the factory expense! What you buy at the time is what you pay for, not ALL future improvement!
if that were the norm, then why can't I go get a 2015 car to replace my 2012 that does not have all the NEW improvements for FREE?
And further, how is it that YOU are the spokesman for the owner , when he isn't even aware of some of the things you bring up 3rd. handedly!
It IS NOT your place to try and run down a mans business when you DO NOT even own any of his product! As to returning it to the factory, I do not know of ANY factories that come to you ! And on a last note, it would be very beneficial if (others) would stop trying to fix thing on this aircraft that are not broken!



let us agree to disagree and stop this useless thread!
 

Steve_UK

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I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
Question - is the Viking engine for aero use in "serial production" - where say a batch of 100 or more are built to identical standards - or is it each conversion in effect bespoke, similar but with a few tweaks/mods that make it different to the next one as they progress along their learning curve.

Approx how many Viking engines are flying ? I've no idea so any insight would be welcome - thank you.
 

bpearson

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The key point is that this engine was not designed as an aero engine.

The Rotax was 9 series was designed as an aero engine - tested and certified ( an expensive process ) and sold the World over as an aero engine. Over 50,000 out there built to fly. Virtually every light sport / UL aircraft and factory gyro use this engine.

Do you want to "plug and play" or tinker.

Background

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotax_912

Some want to tinker. What's wrong with that? Unless people 'tinker' then the only option will be ROTAX who will continue to screw the life out of people with their crazy prices.
The price they can demand reflects the lack of competition and nothing to do with development costs.
 

Steve_UK

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I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
"Some want to tinker. What's wrong with that?" - Nothing at all, tinkering is good if you enjoy tinkering.

"ROTAX who will continue to screw the life out of people with their crazy prices" - And yet they still they sell and sell and sell. Just back from the LAA rally and what engine did I see over and over again.

"The price they can demand reflects the lack of competition and nothing to do with development costs." - And still there is no significant competitor in this sector, no company with the design skills, time or money to sink into R&D and volume production. Go and visit the factory - it's impressive especially the R&D and production line - quality.

Sounds easy but in the meanwhile we wait for a significant competitor.
 

martin-av8r

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quebec canada
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dominator
steve this post is not about rotax,
The key point is that this engine was not designed as an aero engine, do you think that we have to listen to you to know that the viking honda is not an aircraft engine, the people that want to buy this engine know this before they buy that it is a car engine conversion,
Do you want to "plug and play" or tinker, life is all about tinkering if you do not want to tinker you do not buy an experimental kit gyroplane to build and save money on one engine tu put in and think everything will be perfect, nothing is perfect in this world, its easy to flame some one with a keyboard but before if we take some time to think and ask ourself before flaming one guy for some thing he put time and energy to make, me what do i make, if i make nothing i make no mistake, but if i am not able to make better thing than this guy,why post negative comment when i make nothing, about some one that make some thing that i am not capable of making myself. thank you everyone involve in making gyro affordable for more people
 

RICK MARTIN

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Ernie,
I truly have great respect for you and what you have done to improve this sport. I mean that. And I'd consider myself very lucky if I even had one tenth of your knowledge.

But this man is not being treated fairly. He paid a large amount of money for an aircraft which to this day he still cannot use. And I don't see you or Jan going out of your way to help him. You should have been the first person to intervene on his behalf. This "I didn't sell him the engine" stuff doesn't cut it.

I will try to address the points you brought up:
1. There is a difference between a new part being an improvement and a new part being a replacement for a defective part. For it to be just an improvement, that means that the original part works fine and is safe, but the new part has some extra benefit and is an option for the customer. In the case of the flywheel, we're talking about replacing the same part that has shown a defect on other people's machines and could result in catastrophic damage in the event of failure. Is he supposed to wait until it fails?
2. I am speaking up because nobody else seems to want to, he is too nice of a guy to do it himself, he is dealing with other major problems, and he is my friend and he is not here where the machine is. I would do it for you if the situation was reversed.
3. I'm not trying to run Viking down (I did correct my mistake). I meant it when I said I hope this conversion works out so that there is another viable option for all of us. What I am trying to do is solve a problem that should have been solved long ago. If solving this problem results in facts being brought out that do not reflect well on Jan's company, well, I'm not going to apologize for telling the truth.
4. It is anybody's place to speak up about anything when an injustice is being done. And I am here where the engine is. I do see and hear it try to run, I have seen first hand the issues and the results of what's been done to this engine.
5. Of course most factories don't go to the customer. But he COULD have planned to do just that while he was visiting you. Or he could have said, hey, it's close enough, why don't you have that guy bring the machine over to your shop while I'm here? Either of those gestures would have gone a long way to easing the customer's disappointment.
6. I double checked and to my knowledge, "others" haven't taken anything apart on this engine.
7. This is not a useless thread. Ernie, you sold this man a brand new machine. Please, please help him get this machine in good, safe running order. Come on guys, give me a reason to post some positive comments.
 

Steve_UK

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I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
Martin - there is no flame, but there are queries and questions - that's forum dialogue.
 

bpearson

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No Steve...you basically say 'why bother with anything but a ROTAX'
I'd have thought you would welcome diversity and innovation being an enthusiast. Seen one type of factory machine and you've seen them all!
 

Steve_UK

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I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
""No Steve...you basically say 'why bother with anything but a ROTAX' ""

Hi Brian - your attempt to read my mind and speak for me is incorrect.


""Seen one type of factory machine and you've seen them all! ""


Hardly - you need to get out more - quiet some difference between a Calidus - Tercel - MTO - M24, although all use the same engine supplier.
 

bpearson

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I said 'one type' of factory machine! But hey not to worry.

You might know. Did nothing come of the B22 engine Magni were looking at?
 

GyroRon

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I don't think people buying viking engines expect to have to tinker.

I think the expectation is it is a lower cost, but fully sorted out and bolt on and fly engine package... no different than the rotax, other than perhaps higher weight and of course cheaper purchase price and cheaper parts.

Someone who wants to tinker, but buy their own engine from where ever, and then go through the process of making the conversion themselves, such as how most of us who have done these yamaha snowmobile engine conversions have done.

Even Ernie tried a sled engine on his own machine, and helped a few people out who wanting sled engines on their own machines, but I think what attracted him to the viking was it was supposed to be a bolt on engine package that wouldn't need for a builder to find a sled, remove engine, do modifications and conversion, instead with the viking the idea is just bolt on and go fly.

I am with Ernie though, on its not exactly the manufacturers responsibility to give its customers all the updates for free. Even if it would be nice for boosting vikings reputation.
 

MadMuz

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Evidently there is a gyro here in Australia on the register with a V6 Evinrude outboard motor engine.... I haven't seen it tho :eek:

How's that for tinkering :cool:
 
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The internet is a perfect place to put one side of every story.
I am Jan Eggenfellner and my previous company did not make it through the 2008 recession.
That is now 6 years ago.

We had to start over when the market came back.
I have made my share of mistakes.

Jan Eggenfellner
 
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Hi Rick

Before you talk trash about someone you have never met, why don't you at least get your facts straight. Here are the facts about the Yellow Dominator you are talking about:

The engine ran perfect when it left Viking
The machine ran perfect when it left Ernie
The owner of the machine live in Maine and has only seen his machine for about 2 weeks total.
Last time he was in Florida, he brought the machine and we worked on it until we found the valves had been adjusted. We corrected it and a few other things.
No charge to the customer.

If the machine need further work, we can do that.

We stand behind every engine.

Jan Eggenfellner
 
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Here you go again?
What is this mentality about free upgrades?
The engines don't cost much to start with. Be happy a manufacturer is making improvements and power enhancements. In the end, that is what we all need.

Your posts are not supportive. When a new engine, with great potential is on the market, be supportive. Then, together we can all push forward, like I am doing together with Ernie.

All flywheels will be replaced on 2012 and earlier engines, at the cost of parts.

Jan Eggenfellner
 
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Thank you for the corrections to the previous posts.
We will coordinate further work on this machine with the owner only.
And you are correct, all upgrades can be done at the same time.

Jan Eggenfellner
 

gyrojake

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Like I've always said, The biggest problem with Gyro's are people with tool box's and don't know how to use them.
Some one gets something that works fine, but yet they think they could make it better, just don't make sense.
I know I've seen several occasions where people would let someone that acted like they knew what they were talking about work on their gyro engine and did not have a clue what they were doing.
One is an auto mechanic and I wouldn't let them change a light bulb in my dog house.
So, be careful who you let work on your stuff, it's your ass and money,not theirs.
 
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Here at Viking we don't know much about the Gyro World. We do know that the word does need a reliable 4 stroke lightweight and powerful engine that is procured in good numbers. That is what we do. The engine has been flying on airplanes for over 400 hr without any changes. Now, taking out more power, at elevated rpm, is showing where we went a little light in the first place. First 480 lb of thrust, then 550 and now 610. We have now beefed up these area's and the engine is again ready for hundreds of trouble free hours at the new power level. We are proud of having a machine win several awards at the latest Gyro event up north. Egg drop, spot landing and overall best machine, the way I understood it. Now that is positive news. It is not that anyone should hide problems, it is about going about it in a positive way to have them corrected. With Viking it will always be at the cost of the parts. It is fun to be part of this because the engines are really tested. No other machine need the kind of constant power. Yes, the Rotax might be in most of the machines but it does not have to be. I might be wrong but believe that with a Gyro, the manufacturer can LSA certify the entire machine, engine and all, as a unit. Not sure if that is true or not. Hope to work for many years with everyone.

Jan Eggenfellner
 
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Is the Viking Engine built is serial production?

Is the Viking Engine built is serial production?

Question - is the Viking engine for aero use in "serial production" - where say a batch of 100 or more are built to identical standards - or is it each conversion in effect bespoke, similar but with a few tweaks/mods that make it different to the next one as they progress along their learning curve.

Approx how many Viking engines are flying ? I've no idea so any insight would be welcome - thank you.

Vikings Inventory of 1,000 - that is one-thousand gear sets for the serial produced engine.

http://vikingaircraftengines.ning.com/viking-engines-and-parts-pictures/20140902-141133

 
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