Inconsistent Info

The last time I looked at Cavalon weight and balance the maximum seat weight was 440 pounds and the maximum weight in either seat was 240 pounds.

In other word; if you weigh 240 pounds the maximum passenger weight would be 200 pounds.

Magni weight and balance is done in a more traditional way.
 
As it happens, I weigh 240 pounds . . . naked. I don't intend to fly like Gyrocopter Girl so other ideas need to be considered. It's funny, I came here for gyro help and it turns out I need a good diet first. Thanks for the numbers Vance.

-Lee
 
You as the builder determine the aircrafts Gross weight. But the paperwork submitted to the FAA does not ask for the Gross weight.

The data plate attached to the aircraft only requires 3 items.
45.13 Identification data.
(a) The identification required by § 45.11(a) and (b) shall include the following information:
(1) Builder's name.
(2) Model designation.
(3) Builder's serial number.
 
What schmoe90 said....Magni factory site lists European specs. MagniUSA lists allowable US specs, and even those are conservative. As MonkeyClaw sates, they can and will vary by build. I know some builders who listed their Vne at 138mph on an M16/915 as that was simply as fast as he wanted to test his aircraft to. Funny thing is, the specs on the new M26, with the same engine and rotor head, are exactly that!
Hang on. You said the "Magni factory site lists European specs". When I ask for the link to those specs, you merely attach a British M16C manual from 2016? WTF
So where did you get the specs you mentioned on the new M26, et al.?
 
You as the builder determine the aircrafts Gross weight.

Same for Vne, etc. Also, during airworthiness inspection DAR will ask for POH, which has to be compiled by the builder of the aircraft (you). POH will contain all the numbers you put in it. Some people use provided by Magni Flight Manual as a POH, but even then they replace the title Flight Manual on book cover with Pilot Operating Handbook.

BTW, my M-24 has max gross = 1320lb, Vne = 105MPH, max pilot/passenger weight = 265/265.WB-M24-915iS.jpg
 
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240 pounds (occasionally 242 lbs, or 110 kgs) limit per seat is a very common design value for aircraft. That same number pops up frequently for helicopters, gliders, etc., and I've seen it in more flight manuals than I can count. It's a handy designer's goal for accommodating energy absorption at impact, bending moment, etc.
It is so common (and 110 is such a nice round metric value for daN) that I wonder if it is buried in some European standard somewhere.
 
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Thanks for the clarification on EAB rules. That goes a long way to explaining the variety of performance numbers. If I go to the Magni factory and build a gyro using their builder assist program will I be listed as the builder (I did 51%)? I suppose most people would use the factory-supplied numbers?

You all have been a huge help, thanks for finding the time to respond.

-Lee
 
If I go to the Magni factory and build a gyro using their builder assist program will I be listed as the builder (I did 51%)?e
Yes, you will be the builder of record and you will be able to obtain Repareman Certificate, which will allow you to sign off on annual inspection of your aircraft.
 
Yes but, just to note, getting a Repairman Certificate for the builder requires submitting paperwork to your local FSDO, and is a separate process from getting the aircraft registered and then having it inspected (usually by a DAR) for its airworthiness certificate. First things first!

Make sure whoever is selling you the gyro-to-be-built explains the entire E-AB process to you in some detail.
 
Thanks for the clarification on EAB rules. That goes a long way to explaining the variety of performance numbers. If I go to the Magni factory and build a gyro using their builder assist program will I be listed as the builder (I did 51%)? I suppose most people would use the factory-supplied numbers?
Your own testing during the initial hours may lead you to adjust the factory suggested limits and performance speeds.
 
"Also, during airworthiness inspection DAR will ask for POH, which has to be compiled by the builder of the aircraft (you). POH will contain all the numbers you put in it"

My DAR says a POH is not required. Unless you plan to use the aircraft for flight instruction.
 
My DAR says a POH is not required. Unless you plan to use the aircraft for flight instruction.
In my case I did plan to use the aircraft for flight instruction, and I was instructed in it up until the checkride.
P.S. I registered two EAB gyros, both times DAR asked for POH, he even took the picture of its cover. Did not ask me about my plans to use the gyros for instructions.
 
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Hang on. You said the "Magni factory site lists European specs". When I ask for the link to those specs, you merely attach a British M16C manual from 2016? WTF
So where did you get the specs you mentioned on the new M26, et al.?
Sorry Tyger - just saw this. Here you go:

Magni USA https://www.magniusa.com/m-24-orion.html

I saw specs posted on FB, and also found same thing here: https://www.aeroexpo.online/prod/magni-gyro-srl/product-176057-71056.html

All speculated at this point, as nothing official from Magni just yet.
 
Thanks for the links.
However, I wouldn't say the MagniUSA site is the "factory" site, and I think the info to be found there has not actually been updated in about five years. There's no mention on it of the availability any non-carbureted engines, for example.
 
The last time I looked at Cavalon weight and balance the maximum seat weight was 440 pounds and the maximum weight in either seat was 240 pounds.

In other word; if you weigh 240 pounds the maximum passenger weight would be 200 pounds.

Magni weight and balance is done in a more traditional way.
Magni M24 915.
 
Hello everyone,

Been thinking about Gyros for a couple of years and took my first ride a few days ago. To be blunt . . . it exceeded all my expectations. I haven't grinned that hard for a very long time. I started the arduous process of educating myself about gyros and after ten days of phone calls and countless hours of web research, I now know a bit more than when I started. There's a lot to soak in. I'm very thankful for these forums.

With that said, I'm having a hard time obtaining consistent information, especially with what should be factual info. For example, let's take the Magni M24's max weight. I have seen it "officially" published as 500 kilos and 535 kilos. I've read that the single-seat weight has a max of 240 pounds to 270 pounds. I've seen max speeds published as 100 mph and 120 mph. You would think that all the stats would be published on the official Magni website, but unless I've gone blind the only numbers I've been able to find is a max speed of 95 mph and that was hidden inside a narrative paragraph. BTW, their website does an excellent job of selling the excitement and adventure of owning a Magni, just little to no hard information.

Where can I go to find product info? How tall is it, how wide, how long . . . Is it going to fit in my hangar? This applies to not only Magni but some other brands as well. I was looking at the Xenon, I mean the AG 915, or maybe it's the Argon 915, or is it called the AirGyro 915? And good luck trying to find out what's changed over the last few years and who made the changes.

Thanks for reading and if you could point me where I should be looking, I'd appreciate it.

-Lee
My own gyro, a RAF 2000, is for sale at $ 10000 USD. For more infos, visit http://servicecamerapro.com/RAF-2000.html
 
Same for Vne, etc. Also, during airworthiness inspection DAR will ask for POH, which has to be compiled by the builder of the aircraft (you). POH will contain all the numbers you put in it. Some people use provided by Magni Flight Manual as a POH, but even then they replace the title Flight Manual on book cover with Pilot Operating Handbook.
It was certainly my impression that a POH was a requirement, and so Denis and I have been working on POH's for the GT-VX1and 2.

I do like the format of your weight and balance. Was this one provided with your aircraft or did you draw this one up your self?
 
Thanks everyone for the replies, the shadows are not as dark:)

Vance,

Originally the plan was to fly as many types as I could, but after educating myself about the different models I was able to narrow the list down quite a bit. This may not be the best thought . . . there is a theory that you are happiest when you don't know what you're missing. I'm leery of exposing myself to everything and getting the dreaded "paralysis through analysis" Shopping is fun, flying is funner.

And yes, I'm on the heavy side. Personally, I don't think I'm heavy. . . but the scale says otherwise.

I did some reading regarding some comments that several of you mentioned about Euro specs and US specs. It's looking like that's where the variety of contradictory info is coming from. I was not aware that an EAB kit could be registered/certified for a different "max" gross weight. For example, a CubCrafters EX-3 allows the builder to certify that plane at 1320 pounds (LSA) or its max gross weight of 2000 pounds. The airplane builds exactly the same way, the builder chooses which of the two to operate under. The factory sets the max gross weight (at least that's my understanding).

I also suspect that the Kilo to pound translation is not being done correctly. Some of the math doesn't work in a few instances.

I believe I'm fortunate to have Craig McPherson, who has been incredibly kind with the phone calls, and Dayton Dabs within 3-4 hours of me. The current plan is to get an hour or so in an AutoGyro MTO and then some more time in a Cavalon. Then I want some hours in a Magni MT24. A big part of this decision is understanding max weight because I seldom fly alone. My choice could come down to which craft has the better useful load.

-Lee
Hi Grouser-
Just following up to see what you decided to go with? I’m in the initial phases of exploring and would be receptive to any insight you have.
 
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