Inconsistent Info

Vance

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The last time I looked at Cavalon weight and balance the maximum seat weight was 440 pounds and the maximum weight in either seat was 240 pounds.

In other word; if you weigh 240 pounds the maximum passenger weight would be 200 pounds.

Magni weight and balance is done in a more traditional way.
 

Grouser

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As it happens, I weigh 240 pounds . . . naked. I don't intend to fly like Gyrocopter Girl so other ideas need to be considered. It's funny, I came here for gyro help and it turns out I need a good diet first. Thanks for the numbers Vance.

-Lee
 

GyroChuck

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You as the builder determine the aircrafts Gross weight. But the paperwork submitted to the FAA does not ask for the Gross weight.

The data plate attached to the aircraft only requires 3 items.
45.13 Identification data.
(a) The identification required by § 45.11(a) and (b) shall include the following information:
(1) Builder's name.
(2) Model designation.
(3) Builder's serial number.
 

Tyger

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What schmoe90 said....Magni factory site lists European specs. MagniUSA lists allowable US specs, and even those are conservative. As MonkeyClaw sates, they can and will vary by build. I know some builders who listed their Vne at 138mph on an M16/915 as that was simply as fast as he wanted to test his aircraft to. Funny thing is, the specs on the new M26, with the same engine and rotor head, are exactly that!
Hang on. You said the "Magni factory site lists European specs". When I ask for the link to those specs, you merely attach a British M16C manual from 2016? WTF
So where did you get the specs you mentioned on the new M26, et al.?
 

Inquiring Mind

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You as the builder determine the aircrafts Gross weight.

Same for Vne, etc. Also, during airworthiness inspection DAR will ask for POH, which has to be compiled by the builder of the aircraft (you). POH will contain all the numbers you put in it. Some people use provided by Magni Flight Manual as a POH, but even then they replace the title Flight Manual on book cover with Pilot Operating Handbook.

BTW, my M-24 has max gross = 1320lb, Vne = 105MPH, max pilot/passenger weight = 265/265.WB-M24-915iS.jpg
 
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WaspAir

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240 pounds (occasionally 242 lbs, or 110 kgs) limit per seat is a very common design value for aircraft. That same number pops up frequently for helicopters, gliders, etc., and I've seen it in more flight manuals than I can count. It's a handy designer's goal for accommodating energy absorption at impact, bending moment, etc.
It is so common (and 110 is such a nice round metric value for daN) that I wonder if it is buried in some European standard somewhere.
 
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Grouser

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Thanks for the clarification on EAB rules. That goes a long way to explaining the variety of performance numbers. If I go to the Magni factory and build a gyro using their builder assist program will I be listed as the builder (I did 51%)? I suppose most people would use the factory-supplied numbers?

You all have been a huge help, thanks for finding the time to respond.

-Lee
 

Inquiring Mind

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If I go to the Magni factory and build a gyro using their builder assist program will I be listed as the builder (I did 51%)?e
Yes, you will be the builder of record and you will be able to obtain Repareman Certificate, which will allow you to sign off on annual inspection of your aircraft.
 

Tyger

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Yes but, just to note, getting a Repairman Certificate for the builder requires submitting paperwork to your local FSDO, and is a separate process from getting the aircraft registered and then having it inspected (usually by a DAR) for its airworthiness certificate. First things first!

Make sure whoever is selling you the gyro-to-be-built explains the entire E-AB process to you in some detail.
 

WaspAir

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Thanks for the clarification on EAB rules. That goes a long way to explaining the variety of performance numbers. If I go to the Magni factory and build a gyro using their builder assist program will I be listed as the builder (I did 51%)? I suppose most people would use the factory-supplied numbers?
Your own testing during the initial hours may lead you to adjust the factory suggested limits and performance speeds.
 

GyroChuck

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"Also, during airworthiness inspection DAR will ask for POH, which has to be compiled by the builder of the aircraft (you). POH will contain all the numbers you put in it"

My DAR says a POH is not required. Unless you plan to use the aircraft for flight instruction.
 

Inquiring Mind

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My DAR says a POH is not required. Unless you plan to use the aircraft for flight instruction.
In my case I did plan to use the aircraft for flight instruction, and I was instructed in it up until the checkride.
P.S. I registered two EAB gyros, both times DAR asked for POH, he even took the picture of its cover. Did not ask me about my plans to use the gyros for instructions.
 
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AgentCheese

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Hang on. You said the "Magni factory site lists European specs". When I ask for the link to those specs, you merely attach a British M16C manual from 2016? WTF
So where did you get the specs you mentioned on the new M26, et al.?
Sorry Tyger - just saw this. Here you go:

Magni USA https://www.magniusa.com/m-24-orion.html

I saw specs posted on FB, and also found same thing here: https://www.aeroexpo.online/prod/magni-gyro-srl/product-176057-71056.html

All speculated at this point, as nothing official from Magni just yet.
 

Tyger

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Thanks for the links.
However, I wouldn't say the MagniUSA site is the "factory" site, and I think the info to be found there has not actually been updated in about five years. There's no mention on it of the availability any non-carbureted engines, for example.
 

HeliSwede

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The last time I looked at Cavalon weight and balance the maximum seat weight was 440 pounds and the maximum weight in either seat was 240 pounds.

In other word; if you weigh 240 pounds the maximum passenger weight would be 200 pounds.

Magni weight and balance is done in a more traditional way.
Magni M24 915.
 

Rene Genest

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Bensen and RAF 2000
Hello everyone,

Been thinking about Gyros for a couple of years and took my first ride a few days ago. To be blunt . . . it exceeded all my expectations. I haven't grinned that hard for a very long time. I started the arduous process of educating myself about gyros and after ten days of phone calls and countless hours of web research, I now know a bit more than when I started. There's a lot to soak in. I'm very thankful for these forums.

With that said, I'm having a hard time obtaining consistent information, especially with what should be factual info. For example, let's take the Magni M24's max weight. I have seen it "officially" published as 500 kilos and 535 kilos. I've read that the single-seat weight has a max of 240 pounds to 270 pounds. I've seen max speeds published as 100 mph and 120 mph. You would think that all the stats would be published on the official Magni website, but unless I've gone blind the only numbers I've been able to find is a max speed of 95 mph and that was hidden inside a narrative paragraph. BTW, their website does an excellent job of selling the excitement and adventure of owning a Magni, just little to no hard information.

Where can I go to find product info? How tall is it, how wide, how long . . . Is it going to fit in my hangar? This applies to not only Magni but some other brands as well. I was looking at the Xenon, I mean the AG 915, or maybe it's the Argon 915, or is it called the AirGyro 915? And good luck trying to find out what's changed over the last few years and who made the changes.

Thanks for reading and if you could point me where I should be looking, I'd appreciate it.

-Lee
My own gyro, a RAF 2000, is for sale at $ 10000 USD. For more infos, visit http://servicecamerapro.com/RAF-2000.html
 
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