Inconsistent Info

Grouser

Newbie
Joined
Aug 8, 2022
Messages
7
Location
Nassau Bay Texas
Hello everyone,

Been thinking about Gyros for a couple of years and took my first ride a few days ago. To be blunt . . . it exceeded all my expectations. I haven't grinned that hard for a very long time. I started the arduous process of educating myself about gyros and after ten days of phone calls and countless hours of web research, I now know a bit more than when I started. There's a lot to soak in. I'm very thankful for these forums.

With that said, I'm having a hard time obtaining consistent information, especially with what should be factual info. For example, let's take the Magni M24's max weight. I have seen it "officially" published as 500 kilos and 535 kilos. I've read that the single-seat weight has a max of 240 pounds to 270 pounds. I've seen max speeds published as 100 mph and 120 mph. You would think that all the stats would be published on the official Magni website, but unless I've gone blind the only numbers I've been able to find is a max speed of 95 mph and that was hidden inside a narrative paragraph. BTW, their website does an excellent job of selling the excitement and adventure of owning a Magni, just little to no hard information.

Where can I go to find product info? How tall is it, how wide, how long . . . Is it going to fit in my hangar? This applies to not only Magni but some other brands as well. I was looking at the Xenon, I mean the AG 915, or maybe it's the Argon 915, or is it called the AirGyro 915? And good luck trying to find out what's changed over the last few years and who made the changes.

Thanks for reading and if you could point me where I should be looking, I'd appreciate it.

-Lee
 

JEFF TIPTON

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
3,020
Location
DICKSON, TN
Aircraft
Grumman AA5
Total Flight Time
1350
M-24 ORION
Fully Enclosed, 2-Seater

https://magniusa.com/m-24-orion.html

WEIGHT​

Empty weight (914)285 Kg (629 lb.)
Maximum take-off gross wt - USA550 Kg (1212 lb.) (Note: European "ultralight" limitations are 450 Kg)
Useful Load - USA280 Kg (583 lb.)

PERFORMANCE​

Maximum speed105 mph
Cruising speed90 mph
Absolute ceiling4000 m (13,000 ft)
Service ceiling3500 m (11,400 ft)
Take-off roll70 m (230 ft)
Landing rollfrom 0 to 30 m (0 to 100 ft)
Rate of climb5 m/s (950 ft/min)
Fuel tank capacity82 lt (21 gal)
Endurance3.0 h (with 1/2 hour reserve)
Range (no reserve)300 miles

DIMENSIONS​

Rotor diameter8535 mm (28 ft)
Propeller diameter1700 mm (67 inch)
Overall width1800 mm (71 inch)
Overall lenght4655 mm (184 inch)
Overall height2600 mm (103 inch)

DESCRIPTION​

Airframe:Chrome-alloy aeronautical 4130 steel, tig welded. Carbon fiber fuselage and instrument panel. Fiberglass tail, landing gear and wheel pants.
Seat:Padded with integral 21 gallon fuel-tank manufactured in epoxy resin reinforced with fiberglass.
Engine:914 Rotax Turbo, 4 cylinders, 4-stroke, water-cooled, 115 hp with electric starter and mechanical prerotator.
Propeller:Arplast 67 inch three-blade carbon fiber with ground adjustable pitch.
Rotor:28 ft diameter, two-blade, composite materials manufactured by Magni Gyro.
Controls:Dual, all steel linkage, all ball bearing joints.
TrimElectric

STANDARD EQUIPMENT​

  • Electric Starter
  • Airpeed Indicator
  • Altimeter
  • EIS Instrument Monitor
  • Vertical Card Magnetic Compass
  • Fuel Level Indicator
  • Prerotator capable of 200 - 300 RRPM
  • Rotor Brake
  • Rotor RPM Tachometer
  • Wheel Brakes and Wheel Pants
  • Landing Light
  • Electric Trim - Left Seat
  • 21 gallon Fuel Tank
  • Arplast Propeller
  • Magni Rotor

OPTIONS: (factory available)​

  • Com Radio
  • Transponder
  • GPS
  • Strobe and NAV lights
  • 12 Volt Power outlet - cigarette type
  • Variometer
 

Kevin_Richey

Yamaha power
Staff member
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
2,811
Location
N. Central AZ @ 4,500'
A Magni dealer would be happy to speak w/ you. Their website also has all that info. Several of their dealers are in your region of TX, MO, LA & AL.

#4 on this list of USA Magni dealers is in Texas. A well-known & respected Gyroplane CFI, Dayton Dabs, in Taylor, TX:
 

Grouser

Newbie
Joined
Aug 8, 2022
Messages
7
Location
Nassau Bay Texas
Thanks, Jeff and Kevin.

I recently found out about Dayton Dabs and he is about 4 hours away. In the gyro community that makes him a neighbor. I called and left a message yesterday so I hope to hear from him soon. In regards to the Magni link, I found it humorous that it has a completely different set of parameters for weight and speed (max speed 105 and max weight is 550 kilos). The gyro dimensions were very helpful, thanks for that.

-Lee
 

Kevin_Richey

Yamaha power
Staff member
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
2,811
Location
N. Central AZ @ 4,500'
DD was recently in SD, CA, & was headed to KS to ferry a recently purchased used M-24 from there to here locally in OR in the next week or two. He sounds busy!
 

Kevin_Richey

Yamaha power
Staff member
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
2,811
Location
N. Central AZ @ 4,500'
Thanks, Jeff and Kevin.

I recently found out about Dayton Dabs and he is about 4 hours away. In the gyro community that makes him a neighbor. I called and left a message yesterday so I hope to hear from him soon. In regards to the Magni link, I found it humorous that it has a completely different set of parameters for weight and speed (max speed 105 and max weight is 550 kilos). The gyro dimensions were very helpful, thanks for that.

-Lee
Google Maps shows only 3 hrs. away! 😂
 

DavePA11

Active Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
1,351
Location
USA
Get pireps on performance of gyros since the published specs are often not typical or vary based on configuration. Check out AR-1 too since they make a nice tandem. There is nice Magni M24 with 915 for sale in Denver now too.
 

Grouser

Newbie
Joined
Aug 8, 2022
Messages
7
Location
Nassau Bay Texas
Kevin,

I took a 20-minute flight in a Cavalon at Oshkosh. Arguably the worst place to demo anything. Despite that, it was amazing. I found out about the PRA event while at Oshkosh but I had my family with me in our 5th wheel (Camp Scholler) and didn't have enough time to drive to Mentone and back to Houston in time for the first day of school. Thanks for the info about DD.

-Lee
 

Grouser

Newbie
Joined
Aug 8, 2022
Messages
7
Location
Nassau Bay Texas
Dave,

Pireps, (phone calls) are equally inconsistent. I can understand the useful load and speed varying quite a bit with so many engines and instrumentation choices. I would think that max weight would be the same whatever options are installed. Magni has been building the M24 for over 10 years and I wonder if there have been any improvements made over those years. Maybe that caused a change in max weight. Dunno

I seldom fly alone, so a side-by-side appeals to me more than a tandem. I have no place to go but up and nothing to do except share the joy of flight. Sounds a bit cliche, but it's what I truly enjoy.

-Lee
 

schmoe90

Magni M-16 Sport Pilot
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Messages
169
Location
Roseville, CA
Aircraft
Magni M-16
Total Flight Time
>1000
I believe the US and European models are pretty much the same, but specify different weights due to licensing requirements - we're allowed more weight in the US.
 

Tyger

Super Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,049
Location
Clermont, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
475
Wouldn't a more powerful engine increase the maximum gross weight allowed?
The stats on the MagniUSA website are for the 914 version with the old Arplast prop.
That's what the Italian site shows too, now that I look.
 
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Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Staff member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
17,366
Location
Santa Maria, California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
Welcome to the Rotary Wing Forum!

I have flown most of the available two place gyroplanes and feel the best way to chose is to fly as many as practical and see what fits you.

Get with several instructors and take your time.

I encourage you to try an open tandem as it is a very different experience than an enclosed side by side.

If you are on the heavy side maximum takeoff weight and weight and balance may become more important in your decision.

I seldom fly a gyroplane at its maximum cruise speed; most have a speed that feels best to me.

I wish you all the best on your gyroplane adventure.
 

MonkeyClaw

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2019
Messages
27
Location
Sedona, AZ
Aircraft
Columbia 400, AR-1c on order
Keep in mind that in the experimental world, these number can and will vary by build. One builder could want to have a shorter takeoff distance, and therefore have a lower max TO weight. Various rotor lengths and engines also make a difference. Max cruise speeds are similar - how much gas do you want to burn? I could put a lower 'max cruise speed' and have a longer range at the new max cruise speed. The kit builder supplies a 'generic' POH, but the builder has to finalize it.


I rarely fly alone also, that's why I prefer the tandem :)

I'm still in the 'build' stage, so others on here have way more knowledge than me. I did a lot of research before choosing a manufacturer. There are a lot to choose from, but the speed and carrying capacities are very similar between most 2-seaters.
 

AgentCheese

Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2020
Messages
51
Location
De Soto, Missouri
Aircraft
Magni M16 914
Total Flight Time
400+ in Gyros
What schmoe90 said....Magni factory site lists European specs. MagniUSA lists allowable US specs, and even those are conservative. As MonkeyClaw sates, they can and will vary by build. I know some builders who listed their Vne at 138mph on an M16/915 as that was simply as fast as he wanted to test his aircraft to. Funny thing is, the specs on the new M26, with the same engine and rotor head, are exactly that!
 

Tyger

Super Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,049
Location
Clermont, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
475
What schmoe90 said....Magni factory site lists European specs. MagniUSA lists allowable US specs, and even those are conservative. As MonkeyClaw sates, they can and will vary by build. I know some builders who listed their Vne at 138mph on an M16/915 as that was simply as fast as he wanted to test his aircraft to. Funny thing is, the specs on the new M26, with the same engine and rotor head, are exactly that!
Please link us to where the Magni factory site shows those specs. I'm not finding it
 

MTO Flyer

Newbie
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
11
Location
Phoenix
Aircraft
AutoGyro MTO Sport
Total Flight Time
125
Hello everyone,

Been thinking about Gyros for a couple of years and took my first ride a few days ago. To be blunt . . . it exceeded all my expectations. I haven't grinned that hard for a very long time. I started the arduous process of educating myself about gyros and after ten days of phone calls and countless hours of web research, I now know a bit more than when I started. There's a lot to soak in. I'm very thankful for these forums.

With that said, I'm having a hard time obtaining consistent information, especially with what should be factual info. For example, let's take the Magni M24's max weight. I have seen it "officially" published as 500 kilos and 535 kilos. I've read that the single-seat weight has a max of 240 pounds to 270 pounds. I've seen max speeds published as 100 mph and 120 mph. You would think that all the stats would be published on the official Magni website, but unless I've gone blind the only numbers I've been able to find is a max speed of 95 mph and that was hidden inside a narrative paragraph. BTW, their website does an excellent job of selling the excitement and adventure of owning a Magni, just little to no hard information.

Where can I go to find product info? How tall is it, how wide, how long . . . Is it going to fit in my hangar? This applies to not only Magni but some other brands as well. I was looking at the Xenon, I mean the AG 915, or maybe it's the Argon 915, or is it called the AirGyro 915? And good luck trying to find out what's changed over the last few years and who made the changes.

Thanks for reading and if you could point me where I should be looking, I'd appreciate it.

-Lee
Before I ordered my AutoGyro MTO 2017, I flew everything I could find- MTO, Cavalon, Magni M16, Magni M24, TAG, Tango, AR 1, etc. It's worth the time to go to Mentone, Benson Days, Fun-n-Sun, or individuals as much as possible before making your decision. I changed my mind from the Cavalon that I thought I wanted.
 

Grouser

Newbie
Joined
Aug 8, 2022
Messages
7
Location
Nassau Bay Texas
Thanks everyone for the replies, the shadows are not as dark:)

Vance,

Originally the plan was to fly as many types as I could, but after educating myself about the different models I was able to narrow the list down quite a bit. This may not be the best thought . . . there is a theory that you are happiest when you don't know what you're missing. I'm leery of exposing myself to everything and getting the dreaded "paralysis through analysis" Shopping is fun, flying is funner.

And yes, I'm on the heavy side. Personally, I don't think I'm heavy. . . but the scale says otherwise.

I did some reading regarding some comments that several of you mentioned about Euro specs and US specs. It's looking like that's where the variety of contradictory info is coming from. I was not aware that an EAB kit could be registered/certified for a different "max" gross weight. For example, a CubCrafters EX-3 allows the builder to certify that plane at 1320 pounds (LSA) or its max gross weight of 2000 pounds. The airplane builds exactly the same way, the builder chooses which of the two to operate under. The factory sets the max gross weight (at least that's my understanding).

I also suspect that the Kilo to pound translation is not being done correctly. Some of the math doesn't work in a few instances.

I believe I'm fortunate to have Craig McPherson, who has been incredibly kind with the phone calls, and Dayton Dabs within 3-4 hours of me. The current plan is to get an hour or so in an AutoGyro MTO and then some more time in a Cavalon. Then I want some hours in a Magni MT24. A big part of this decision is understanding max weight because I seldom fly alone. My choice could come down to which craft has the better useful load.

-Lee
 
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