Incident - N65PC AR-1 in Florida

Steve_UK

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I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
The FAA ASIAS report shows - 20th Feb 2022 - N65PC AR-1C location Saratosa, Florida

AIRCRAFT CRASHED IN THE GRASS FOR UNKNOWN REASONS, SARASOTA, FL.


Injury none - damage unknown - flight phase unknown
 
FAA Registration shows Paul Spangenberg Baby Bird Aviation AR1C 914 AW date of 5/30/19
 
FAA Registration shows Paul Spangenberg Baby Bird Aviation AR1C 914 AW date of 5/30/19
Paul sold it some time ago.

Based on rumor; it appears to me to be a blade sail on a hurried takeoff and the nose wheel detached ending up in the grass.

Gossip has it as no injuries and limited damage.
 
Sounds like an interesting (if familiar) chain of events.
 
All I know is flapped the rotor on rushed takeoff run. ATC cleared takeoff but then took clearance away due to Jet landing on cross runway and then cleared again. Pilot then tried to rush the takeoff run and flapped rotor. No injuries and rotor hit the rudder/tail top. Supposedly slight damage. Don't have any other info.
Our recommended POH procedure is to pre-rotate to 160 - 220 rotor RPM before pulling stick back and moving forward in order to manage the rotor easier and reduce flapping risk
 
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I know it's a different machine, but I always pre-rotate mine to 220 before I start rolling, if it's from a standing start.
If I'm already moving (say on touch and goes) I'll increase the throttle gradually till I get rrpm to 220 before giving it full throttle.
 
Why do people rush takeoffs?
You’re cleared on the runway….. it’s yours….. take your time and do it right!!!! 🙄
If controllers tell you to expedite…… wait for the next slot!!!
 
Why do people rush takeoffs?
You’re cleared on the runway….. it’s yours….. take your time and do it right!!!! 🙄
If controllers tell you to expedite…… wait for the next slot!!!

Primacy.
Fixed wing pilots switching to rotorcraft when frazzled a bit switch to long learned behavior of going to full power and fast acceleration on takeoff run.
That is exactly why the POH recommends not even pulling stick back or even begin moving till you get to a higher rotor RPM in pre rotation. If you are not an existing airplane or trike pilot you don’t have this in your neural pathways so may be have less chances of this happening. In Gyroplanes you need to reach rotor RPM and airspeed in coordination to lift off and climb properly. Reaching airspeed alone by rushed acceleration on the ground is a sure shot way to have an expensive bill.
In an AR-1 with 912 or 914 it would be very unlikely though not completely impossible that you can flap the rotor if you went to 180 to 200 rotor RPM and pulled the stick all the way back and then tried to accelerate with power. Those values of rotor RPM given a 8.6 meter disc give you sone protection against mistakes or misjudgment.
I am a bit surprised by takeoff run accidents involving blade flap because if you simply follow procedure they would not happen but it’s obvious people have their own procedures and they do happen.
 
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I was going to ask if it had been an airplane-trained pilot flying that gyro. But then I just figured I'd hear about it soon enough...

Whenever an airplane pilot asks me how hard it might be to learn to fly a gyro, I tell him, "Not all that hard, but you definitely will have to put aside certain airplane habits that can get you into serious trouble." That usually raises some eyebrows.
 
Once, when I was a student pilot, I was spinning up at the hold short line at a towered airport (something I was not used to) when I got cleared for immediate takeoff. I thought I had prerotated enough to get going, so I hustled out onto the runway and started my takeoff roll. But what I had FAILED to do was to bring my stick back. Suddenly, I realized I was accelerating much faster than usual and my rrpm was not going up at all! So I cut the power, eased the stick back, then added throttle again, but gradually, and all was well.

I still remember it as if it were yesterday, thinking how close I came to a major screw up, all because I was rushed.
 
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In an AR-1 with 912 or 914 it would be very unlikely though not completely impossible that you can flap the rotor if you went to 180 to 200 rotor RPM and pulled the stick all the way back and then tried to accelerate with power.
I have until now only made power take-offs. Prerotate to 200+ and then simultaneously stick back and full power (both in about 3 seconds).
And I have a 914 MTO.

I believe that's the way with the MTO. Although Phil Harwood writes differently in his book (I have the old version).

Cheers
Erik
 
Tyger, that was well done - I'm not sure, I could save it - I might have pulled the stick (after 40+ years of model planes).
 
Recently flying with a high time pilot low time gyroplane student at Santa Maria ATC said “Gyroplane 142 Mike Golf, runway three zero clear for takeoff; no delay”. I feel the correct response is “gyroplane 142 Mike Golf is unable”. The clearance was canceled and we had to wait for two landings before we were cleared for takeoff.

A low time pilot being rushed by ATC is not good.

The runway was ours but a regional jet might have had to go around costing hundreds of dollars and it would have made ATC look bad.

I encourage saying “student pilot” on the initial contact and if it is a gyroplane where we will stop on the runway to spool up I encourage quantifying the delay during initial contact.
 
In another thread I related how I was recently cleared to land at busy Republic Airport (KFRG), after the tower had called my base.
As I turned final, doing about 70 mph, I heard the tower tell a small jet, twice, to slow down his approach, then, finally, to go around.
I wonder if that really cost him hundreds of dollars?
Just as I was turning off the very first taxiway, I heard the plane ask the tower, "Was that a helicopter that just landed on the runway??"

Side story: just after I had parked at the nearest FBO, a young guy zipped up in a golf cart, asking my name, address, registration number (duh), aircraft weight, etc, etc. When I asked why, and who he was, he said he worked for the airport and it was for assessing the landing fee. A couple weeks later, I got a bill from NY state in the mail, for two dollars and fifty cents, with a warning that if I did not pay it within ten days, I'd be assessed a $15 penalty! I'm pretty sure it cost them more than $2.50 just to process and send the bill, and cash my check.
 
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Paul sold it some time ago.

Based on rumor; it appears to me to be a blade sail on a hurried takeoff and the nose wheel detached ending up in the grass.

Gossip has it as no injuries and limited damage.
Any idea why the nose wheel detached? Seems odd...
 
Any idea why the nose wheel detached? Seems odd...
I have not seen the aircraft in person nor talked to the pilot so I would prefer not to pass on gossip.
I am grateful there were no injuries that required repairs.
 
If it ran off the runway and into the grass at speed, once could easily imagine the nose wheel being extensively damaged, depending on how bumpy the turf is. I am sure we will get more details in the fullness of time.
 
Side story: just after I had parked at the nearest FBO, a young guy zipped up in a golf cart, asking my name, address, registration number (duh), aircraft weight, etc, etc. When I asked why, and who he was, he said he worked for the airport and it was for assessing the landing fee. A couple weeks later, I got a bill from NY state in the mail, for two dollars and fifty cents, with a warning that if I did not pay it within ten days, I'd be assessed a $15 penalty! I'm pretty sure it cost them more than $2.50 just to process and send the bill, and cash my check.
I landed my J-2 once at an airport with a $25 standard fee, and was told that they would waive the fee if I bought 50 gallons or more of fuel. The J-2 tanks held only 20 total, and they weren't empty when I landed.
 
Ya, at this airport the landing fee is collected separately from the fees at the several FBOs, so evidently there's no such option there.
What's the range on the J-2? And how about the 18A?
 
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I have until now only made power take-offs. Prerotate to 200+ and then simultaneously stick back and full power (both in about 3 seconds).
And I have a 914 MTO.

I believe that's the way with the MTO. Although Phil Harwood writes differently in his book (I have the old version).

Cheers
Erik

Should not "gun" the throttle. Why? In a normal takeoff, after 200 pre-rotation, stick back while simultaneously increasing power to around 4000 to 4500 RPM smoothly, eye on rotor RPM gauge to make sure it tends to move in the right direction, as it accelerates smoothly increase power over 2 to 3 seconds to full power as your front comes up. Don't take too long there or you will just elongate takeoff distance for nothing. Once rotor RPM is moving forward, you can start to increase power smoothly and front wheel gets light almost immediately at that point.

If you don't have a rotor RPM gauge. Good luck with rotor management by feel. Rotors flap on takeoff roll because of a mathematical relationship between rotor RPM and airspeed and its all by the numbers.
Just day before yesterday flying a 914 new AR-1, I noticed that for some reason I could not reach the usual 180 to 200 rotor RPM on pre-rotation. I could only get to 160, I proceeded forward gently applying power slowly to nurse the rotor RPM up with stick back. Kept going, peaking at rotor RPM and saw it come very slowly but finally it did come and I took off. As I passed the windsock, I realized wind had completely switched 180 degrees and I had taken off in 8 knots tailwind. Without the rotor RPM gauge to really see what was the trend I could have flapped the blades. They are not necessary but they are fairly good tool for times like that where your feel is just going to slap you in the face most likely
 
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