Ignition Identification Please

barnstorm2

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I was under the impression that this was a Ford Escort ignition system.

However, when I ordered a new ignition coil what I got was not the same as I as what I have mounted.


Can anyone please:

Confirm this is a Ford Escort Ignition

Identify this ignition coil?


Thanks!
 

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Looks like a Ford Escort to me. the coil may be aftermarket not stock ford though
 
Thanks Ron!

I like the new avatar!
 
My new aviator is thanks to Todd. :)

So what part do you need for the ignition?
 
I think the coil.

When the engine is hot and has been running for say 15-20min it starts missing. The temp is fine (see picture) but it will act like it is missing above 3500 rpm and progressively worse through 5000rpm. No missing at any RPM when she is cool through 200deg F in the first 15-20min.

The picture below shows me stomping on the brake to hold her in place at 3500RPM. It IS missing when I took this photo.

I hope it is the coil going bad and just acting up when she is hot.

I ordered a new coil for a Escort but it is NOT the same coil I have on the engine. Whomever put the ign & coil on the original engine must have put a differn't coil on it and spliced in a new wire.
 

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Tim most people use a aftermarket high output coil on these machines. The Coil is not part of the distributor, it should be mounted near by and be attached to the distributor by a few wires. Most of the coils used are off the shelf items found at Pep Boys or autozone in the go fast goodie aisle. Any coil should work as long as it is 12 volts and the wires can hook up to it.
 
My experience with motorcycles is somewhat differen't.

Electronic ignitions are sometimes looking for a particular load on the coil.

Also, without the proper connecting plug I have to buy a new wiring harness plug to go from the ignition to the coil. This plug is not the same as the one originally used by the Escort ignition.
 
The pict above is the best picture I have right now. The hanger for the two place is 6 hours round trip away and I only get to visit it about every other week.
 
Escort or not

Escort or not

There are 2 different ford ignition systems that use that type of distributor with the ignition module on the side. The nice part about the ford ignition module is that it has 2 separate transistors, 1 for the "run" position and the other for the "start" position.

Most guys wire up both to the hot leads, in my case I hooked up each hot to a separate switch so I can check each transistors operation.

Each the early dists used a magnetic pole piece similiar of all general motors hei distributors from 1975 to present. Then ford went to a "tfi"or thin film ignition that was a bit more sophisitcated and used a ecm to control coil firing.

You can identify this by looking under the ignition rotor and seeing the 4 points on the ring and reluctor. This is most likely the one you have.
Get a new pickup for drill.....

They like to have a coil with at least 1 ohm resistance.

Any lower, aka "hi po coils" and you will be pulling serious amps thru the coil & the module....

my jacobs coil with .2 ohms pulled 12 amps per discharge..... whew ! ( 4 to 7 amps is desirable"

I have a photo of my snap on scope with a waveform I keep meaning to post but the bottom line is that the ignition module even with both start and run powers on you dont want to see more than 7 amps. To low an amp reading you will have sputtering at high engine loads, if you are running any type of ballast resistor with the coil now that is most likely your problem.

If you dont have access to an oscilliscope with a current amp probe do not try and do it any other way.

You have to stick with the stock coil to be safe.

high rpm the duty cycle or " on time" is such that the coil will get overheated, the windings will act like an oven element and zapooo your dead.

If you use a low ohm perf coil you might have to use a ballast resistor of certain spec to get the current low enough so that you dont cook everything. again if you dont have a way to measure the current for the duty cycle then your wee weeing in the wind. Otherwise use their "ignition" box to trigger "their" coil whatever your brand.

Personally only jacobs ignition stuff is worth a damn for our needs the rest is junk. Jacobs marine box cdi set up is the only way to go in my op. but its pricy at almost 400 bucks.....

Ok, some advice you can use.

1. ONLY use oem ford motorcraft ignition cap and rotor. Dont ask me how many defective "premium" sets from napa and standard I have thrown back defective. Driven me frikkin nuts........

2. Use white heat sink compound behind the module to dissapate the heat. NOT plug boot silicone release compound !!! Radio shack has it.

3. Grab the top of the dist shaft and push it back and forth, if the top bearing has too much play the pickup/trigger will hash all over the place and false triggger the module or not at all at certain rpm's. and you could have problems.

Points distributors are very very sensitive to upper bearing play obivously because the point gap and dwell is effected by the runout or play in the shaft, hei or electronic trigger is more forgivving but not 100 % fool proof with too much play. I cant tell you how many guys chase dwell and point gap and timing only to discover the upper bearing / bushing is wasted. Most ford escort junkers are already wasted and nobody checks it......aahhhhaa.

4. Make a separate ground wire, go straight to the distributor body somewhere. The module ground uses the distributor body as a ground A clean copper wire to engine ground can help all sorts of problems. Just because your dist is tight does not mean you have a good electrical connection under LOAD.

If your distributor is loose when you are setting timing and you are relying on the dist bolt to ground for your module trigger then you wont have a clean trigger now will you? Thats why you use a separate dedicated ground wire.

5. Only use motorcraft ford parts on this unit. module etc.

There are 2 types of coils yours looks like an "E" laminate coil, that has lower resistance than the "can" type coil. E is 1 ohm and less, can is 1ohm and more. I have seen both types of coils on ford escorts depending on build dates and engine calibration packages so my advise to you is to get a mallory coil with 1+ ohm resistance. Mallory is good stuff most of the time they run about 80 bucks in the summit or jegs catalog they list one for "electronic" ignitoion get that one.... or get the universal Jacobs e laminate coil and take your chances with the stock ignition module, mine runs about 7 amps with both start and run power'd

Put motorcraft cap, rotor and module heat sink compound. check bearing, set timing. If your engine is running really hot, (over 225) remote mount the module on a heatsink, do a marine wire with heat shrink and stress reliefs to the module and make everything nice. Sounds like work your right but its a lot better than ending up in the trees or worse.



Stock subaru ecm's efi set ups with shared ignition or dis coil packs are low resistance and are engineered to take the heat and duty cycle / abuse.

last word, accell yellow coils USED to be good but I had a rash of made in china ones that all went defective. Thanks accell, same price, terrible quality control !!!

You can shake it and hear the fluid and iron rattle in the housing.........

All my kid customers got stuck...... Most of the hi po trash is just a fancy box with a sticker, most of it is junk.

I own a snap on coulselor 2 and big sun ignition scope with all the attachments and I can tell you I have done a lot of research on ignition systems. Stick with what I said and you will be ok.

I can be reached at 252-249-1223 Eastern time if you have any other questions.

Hope this helps.

last edit here, your pic shows the poor plug going to the module, go to napa and get some new terminals they no longer make the plug, crimp and solder the "metripack" terminals to the appropiate wires, use some "ultra copper" silicone to hold the wires in the module just goosh it in the cavity with everything hooked up. that plug is most likely green with goo.....


Jonathan
ASE Master Tech.
 
Last edited:
Jonathan,

Thank you for the expert info.

The coil in this threads picture is the one that failed.

I have a new NAPA coil for the Escort but I do not have the male connectior for the wire that runs from the ignition. The Accel coil has screw terminals which seemed even safer so I used it.

I do not have a scope. I do have a volt-ohm meter so I can check resistance of the coil.

The Accel coil claims it is for the Ford TFI ignition system. So far it has solved the problem and had been working.

I would like to run a seperate lead to each transistor, thanks!

I will run an extra ground to the distributor, thanks!

Do you have a photo of your remote module?

Rather then solder and crimp what about cleaning the contacts, then Silicone it in?


Thanks! Great post!
 
Questions. about ignition

Questions. about ignition

Jonathan,

Thank you for the expert info.

The coil in this threads picture is the one that failed.

I have a new NAPA coil for the Escort but I do not have the male connectior for the wire that runs from the ignition. The Accel coil has screw terminals which seemed even safer so I used it.

> you can have a good connection with spade terminals but little nuts can work loose too.

> You should be able to get the "spade" connector for that coil. You did not say if its was a can or laminate coil that you got. I suspect you got the e laminate type coil. Napa makes 2 product lines, a "silver box and a "echlin/belden" product. The silver box stuff is 90% of the time trash. Use the orange/blue box.

I do not have a scope. I do have a volt-ohm meter so I can check resistance of the coil.

> check it, should be around 1ohm. Resistance will change slightly with different temps.

The Accel coil claims it is for the Ford TFI ignition system. So far it has solved the problem and had been working.

I would like to run a seperate lead to each transistor, thanks!

> thats the only reason I do not run a gm hei ignition module, the ford has a "redundant feature" the way they have it set up.

I will run an extra ground to the distributor, thanks!

Do you have a photo of your remote module?

I could get you one but the main thing is getting a heat sink. Ford mo co has these modules remote mounted on a lot of cars and trucks with v6 engines. You cant miss the larger finned mounting plate and the familiar grey looking module.

Rather then solder and crimp what about cleaning the contacts, then Silicone it in?

BAD idea. If you took that connector apart you would not ask me that. At some napa stores they sell just the female terminals that you can rewire. do not use the 3/16 mini spades they are too large and do not have the little fingers to hold them on the terminals.

Any west marine has marine grade wire, it is copper tinned and has good insulators. otc copper wire is not good for our apps on critical stuff like ignition systems. Some fabrication will be required. Do not solder the wires to the module terms.... the heat will damage the modules.

The major difference between the early and late ignition modules/ignition systems is the fact that the modules are triggered by the pickups, the early uses a voltage generator which produces an ac signal when viewed on a scope. The tfi system uses a "digital" hall effect signal to trigger the module. As far as I know the 2 WILL NOT interchange. If you are good with wire and some fab you could also use 2 gm hei ignition modules, napa pn # TP 45. Wire them to the pickup and trigger the coil. They have 2 terms for the pickups and 2 for the coil. They are spade terminals too. I would make a special heat sink and remote mount a set up like that.

Also be concerned with VIBRATION. All coils can be damaged by vibrations. The wires inside are delicate and can be ripped loose by too many cycles.

I know more work.

Jonathan



Thanks! Great post!
 
Can someone give me an explanation of the EJ-22 ignitions? Why and which ones had distributors sticking out the rear and others do not? Which is better and why?
 
Chris, I can't say as to what is better, but the ones with the distributors out the rear have had the stock ignition removed and replaced with one from a Ford Escort. Apparently common practice when converting the 2.2 soobs.
 
Jonathan,
Thanks again for the upgrade advice.

I guess I will buy another full ignition and work on that one until I feel it is ready to be mounted. If you do come across a picture(s) please post it.

How would you protect the coil from vibrations? Use rubber washers or bocks on the mount perhaps?
 
Don't know what your new stuff will cost you, but if you want to eliminate all these problems, invest in an Electroair ignition system from Jeff Rose. They're about 500 bucks, last I knew. I have two on my EJ-22 for hundreds of hours without a single problem.
 
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