I love my Tango!

[Resasi]

Scott your new bird looks great, you are enjoying it, life's good.

P.S. Like that flasher on the side.

 

[Boots]

Glad you love your Tango 👍

 

[autotic]

Hey Scott. Thank you for your feedback. I am so happy that you like your Tango2. I know that Alex would have been very happy to hear that as well...

 

[DangerBird]

Well, it looks like Scott has a beautiful gyro (like he always has) and we have two great new companies, not to mention Gyro-Tech, dedicated to our sport. Competition is good. A great time to be a gyro pilot

 

[querist]

The price difference in AR-1 kit versus Tango kit is mainly between a new compliant aircraft engine and a used snow mobile Yamaha engine converted to use in the gyro. If you take that price out the real difference in price is about $4k. AR-1 is apples to apples $4k more expensive kit. Likely because manufactured with US labor.

I realize I'm replying to a post that is a year and a half old, but...

and please correct me I'm wrong, but one significant advantage to using a certificated aircraft engine is that the phase one fly-off is only 25 hours instead of 40, BUT can you work on the certificated engine yourself or do you need an A&P to work on it?

 

[Abid]

I realize I'm replying to a post that is a year and a half old, but...

and please correct me I'm wrong, but one significant advantage to using a certificated aircraft engine is that the phase one fly-off is only 25 hours instead of 40, BUT can you work on the certificated engine yourself or do you need an A&P to work on it?

Phase 1 hours are always 40. No matter what. Few DARs started doing 25 hours at one point but were reprimanded.
In an Experimental aircraft your mom could do the maintenance but only an A&P or a Repairman certificate holder can sign off condition inspection annually. Not that it’s a great way idea to have your mom maintain your engine.

 

[Vance]

I realize I'm replying to a post that is a year and a half old, but...

and please correct me I'm wrong, but one significant advantage to using a certificated aircraft engine is that the phase one fly-off is only 25 hours instead of 40, BUT can you work on the certificated engine yourself or do you need an A&P to work on it?

I suspect Abid is correct in this.

The Van Nuys FSDO gave The Predator a 25 hour phase one after I changed the engine, propeller and rotor (major change).

I found it impossible to do all the things that should be done in phase one in 25 hours of flight time.

Finding the various V speed and environmental limitations for my particular aircraft was quite time consuming.

The new to me engine created some radio issues that were also time consuming to address.

It appears that many with kits simply use the numbers out of the Pilots Operating Handbook.

I have found divergence from the POH in several customer owned experimental amateur built gyroplanes.

I feel that a proper test program has value and the accident statistics seem to bear that out.

Most gyroplanes I have flown with that had a Rotax 912 or 914 were not certificated aircraft engines because they are less expensive.

 

[Sv.grainne]

I realize I'm replying to a post that is a year and a half old, but...

and please correct me I'm wrong, but one significant advantage to using a certificated aircraft engine is that the phase one fly-off is only 25 hours instead of 40, BUT can you work on the certificated engine yourself or do you need an A&P to work on it?

I don't think any of the Rotax engines are certificated by the FAA.

If you did the build, got the AWC and apply for the Repairman's Certificate you can do all maintenance including 100hr inspections. The AWC specifies fly off time, mine was 40 hrs, with a Rotax 912UL.

 

[rwdreams]

If you did the build with a Yamaha, would you need a repairman certificate, and how would you go about getting that. I know there are schools for rotax, but got a Yamaha or a viking ?

 

[MikeBoyette]

I don't think any of the Rotax engines are certificated by the FAA.

If you did the build, got the AWC and apply for the Repairman's Certificate you can do all maintenance including 100hr inspections. The AWC specifies fly off time, mine was 40 hrs, with a Rotax 912UL.

I do believe you are incorrect. They sell the identical engine one being certified, meaning it can be used on a LSA aircraft. The other being non certified and can be used on Experimental. As stated before there is no difference in the engines except for paperwork required by the FAA. The other difference is the expense. Certified anything is outrageous just because the crooked ass government is involved.

 

[Brent Smith]

Phase 1 hours are always 40. No matter what. Few DARs started doing 25 hours at one point but were reprimanded.
In an Experimental aircraft your mom could do the maintenance but only an A&P or a Repairman certificate holder can sign off condition inspection annually. Not that it’s a great way idea to have your mom maintain your engine.

IIRC, the flight test period can be 25 hours IF the engine/prop combination comes from a certified aircraft. Certified engine with a different prop kicks it up to 40 hours, and the local FSDO may not be required to reduce the flight test hours to 25 even with a certified engine/prop combo.

 

[Sv.grainne]

I do believe you are incorrect. They sell the identical engine one being certified, meaning it can be used on a LSA aircraft. The other being non certified and can be used on Experimental. As stated before there is no difference in the engines except for paperwork required by the FAA. The other difference is the expense. Certified anything is outrageous just because the crooked ass government is involved.

Could be, I checked the Rotax site and could not find any info for US type acceptance.

 

[Sv.grainne]

Could be, I checked the Rotax site and could not find any info for US type acceptance.

I'm wrong, they do have certificated versions of the various engine models.

 

[Mayfield]

Certification means different things in different jurisdictions.

Certifications and approvals

The Rotax aircraft engine business meets EASA’s Design & Production Organisation Approval standards. All Rotax engines comply with the ASTM F2339 standard.

www.flyrotax.com

 

[GyroChuck]

If you scroll down to TC Validation Overview it shows what models have a FAA type certificate.

 

[Mayfield]

Here's one of the TCDS

 

[Steve_UK]

The Rotax website has info..............

Certifications and approvals

The Rotax aircraft engine business meets EASA’s Design & Production Organisation Approval standards. All Rotax engines comply with the ASTM F2339 standard.

www.flyrotax.com

scroll down to Type Certification Validation and you'll see EASA and their FAA TC numbers - screen shot attached

 

[Abid]

IIRC, the flight test period can be 25 hours IF the engine/prop combination comes from a certified aircraft. Certified engine with a different prop kicks it up to 40 hours, and the local FSDO may not be required to reduce the flight test hours to 25 even with a certified engine/prop combo.

The problem was AutoGyro builds in the US were using 912ULS or 914UL and these are ASTM compliant but not type certificated versions of the engine. That would be 912S and 914F (without the UL). The engine is exactly the same. One has 200 extra pages of paperwork stored and costs $6k more.

AutoGyro was stating that since they use that engine in their Primary Category certificated aircraft they should get 25 hours with their HTC prop.
Obviously that does not fly. Some DAR in Maryland let them get away with it but in Florida they got caught.