I Guess I Should Introduce Myself

[F5 Tornado]

Hi there fellow pilots. I'm new to flying (actually, I haven't flown yet). Oh yeah, I'm Todd from Escondido California. I've always dreamed of flying ever since I was a little kid. Built a kite and jumped off our 2 story house when I was 8. Jumped off the same house with a military cargo parachute when I was 10. At the same age, I tried to build a helicopter out of wood and an AC motor. At 12, I built a full scale Rogallo hang glider. Parents made me dismantle it before I got my second attempt at flying it. Finally acquired a REAL hang glider when I was 29 and strapped it up in the rafters in my garage where it still sits to this day, unflown. Dreamed of gyroplanes ever since I saw them on Mad Max and James Bond. Which now brings us up to current times, at age 57, where my brother and I spontaneously bought a KB2 in "fair" condition, minus a rotor. It didn't run and by the looks of it, it hasn't in quite a few years. Tank was gelled, carb was gummed up, wiring was deteriorated, and all the fuel lines were wasted. I did finally get it running and it's a beast, but basically it's a parts gyro. Was wondering if tearing it completely down and building it up with some new fabricated parts (airframe, vertical and horizontal stabilizers, 5 gal tank, lounge chair (just kidding) and aluminum wheels) could this be built under the "ultralight" class? <254 lbs. I do plan on trying to get training before ever lifting off the ground, but truth be told, I don't have the money, health, or time left, to go about getting a sport pilot license. I'm also kinda a big guy (6' @ 280 lbs) but working on losing the weight. This is one of those "bucket list" things I feel I gotta do. Sorry for the long intro, and hope I didn't bore you too much, but now you know a little about me. Thanks for taking the time.

 

[Vance]

Welcome to the Rotary Wing Forum Todd!

Based on my experience as a flight instructor I feel it would be best to take an introductory lesson to see if you love flying a gyroplane.

Most flight instructors will let you do everything with the flight controls but take off and land on the introductory lesson.

Becoming a safe gyroplane pilot takes a big commitment of time and money so it is important to know if it is truly something you want to do.

In my experience it takes longer to learn to fly a part 103 (ultralight) gyroplane safely than an N numbered gyroplane that you need a license for.

I feel in the fourth quarter of life it is important to get my priorities straight so I don’t reach the end wishing I had done a particular thing.

 

[Doug Riley]

F5: Welcome to the tribe. At 57, you're probably about the average age of gyronauts these days.

A KB2 can be Part-103 legal if it's left in a "stripped" condition and powered by the uber-unreliable 2-stroke McCulloch drone engine. But, jeez, that's a substantial sacrifice just to dodge some of the regs.

You have to take instruction anyway if you want a good chance of staying safe -- so that cost is baked in, Part 103 or not.

As an auto mechanic, I'd think you might be more comfortable running a 4-stroke. Subaru is the usual inexpensive alternative, while the Rotax "900" series is the gold standard for those with plenty cash. Aircooled VW's don't do very well (been there...). Neither a Soob nor a Rotax
"900" will fit a KB-2 without extensive modification.

But, yes, get an intro flight first. In years of giving intros, I can only recall ONE customer who wasn't very impressed. Most people return to earth with giant grins.

 

[F5 Tornado]

Welcome to the Rotary Wing Forum Todd!

Based on my experience as a flight instructor I feel it would be best to take an introductory lesson to see if you love flying a gyroplane.

Most flight instructors will let you do everything with the flight controls but take off and land on the introductory lesson.

Becoming a safe gyroplane pilot takes a big commitment of time and money so it is important to know if it is truly something you want to do.

In my experience it takes longer to learn to fly a part 103 (ultralight) gyroplane safely than an N numbered gyroplane that you need a license for.

I feel in the fourth quarter of life it is important to get my priorities straight so I don’t reach the end wishing I had done a particular thing.

I definitely plan on doing an introductory lesson, but I'm sure that will only ignite my interest even more. I think the biggest challenge of that will to be able to find an instructor, around San Diego, with an open cockpit gyro, like a KB2, so I know what it would be like to fly my aircraft. Unfortunately, for me, part 103 would be my only option as I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to acquire a medical certificate. Thank you Vance for the advice.

 

[F5 Tornado]

F5: Welcome to the tribe. At 57, you're probably about the average age of gyronauts these days.

A KB2 can be Part-103 legal if it's left in a "stripped" condition and powered by the uber-unreliable 2-stroke McCulloch drone engine. But, jeez, that's a substantial sacrifice just to dodge some of the regs.

You have to take instruction anyway if you want a good chance of staying safe -- so that cost is baked in, Part 103 or not.

As an auto mechanic, I'd think you might be more comfortable running a 4-stroke. Subaru is the usual inexpensive alternative, while the Rotax "900" series is the gold standard for those with plenty cash. Aircooled VW's don't do very well (been there...). Neither a Soob nor a Rotax
"900" will fit a KB-2 without extensive modification.

But, yes, get an intro flight first. In years of giving intros, I can only recall ONE customer who wasn't very impressed. Most people return to earth with giant grins.

Thank you Doug for the welcome. My KB2 currently has the Mac (not quite sure if it's a 72 hp or a 90 yet). It has pretty good compression, although it may have been modified. It has regular automotive spark plugs (Champion D16) in it, gapped @ .018". From what I've read, you have to lower the compression a little by machining off some of the piston in order to run auto plugs. Yes, I will be finding someone near my location for an introductory lesson and more. And I'm sure I'll be smiling. I also need to find rotor blades for my gyro that will support my weight.

 

[GyroChuck]

Unfortunately, for me, part 103 would be my only option as I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to acquire a medical certificate. Thank you Vance for the advice.

You do not need a medical certificate to fly a KB2. As long as you have a Drivers License you can fly with a Sport Pilot Certificate.

 

[F5 Tornado]

You do not need a medical certificate to fly a KB2. As long as you have a Drivers License you can fly with a Sport Pilot Certificate.

Oh, okay. I'll look into that. Thanks for the info Chuck.

 

[Doug Riley]

I'm not a Mac guy, but I've never heard of machining the pistons for the PURPOSE of lowering the compression ratio.

There was/is a procedure known as cam grinding, which removed metal on certain sectors of the sides of the pistons -- the goal being, IIR, to increase clearance and reduce the chance of seizure (a regular feature of the Mac).

A plug gap of .018 tells you how "mighty" your magneto isn't!

Definitely seek out advice from some of the diehards here who have stuck with Macs. You can't beat that engine for power-to-weight ratio, but that advantage has huge costs. Seizures, ignition issues, bearing issues, noise, unreliable fuel pump, exploding props, scarce parts, flimsy crank, fierce vibration, RPM too high for best prop efficiency... she's a beast straight out of Jurassic Park.

 

[GyroChuck]

Oh, okay. I'll look into that. Thanks for the info Chuck.

Scroll down to $61.303

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-61

 

[F5 Tornado]

I'm not a Mac guy, but I've never heard of machining the pistons for the PURPOSE of lowering the compression ratio.

There was/is a procedure known as cam grinding, which removed metal on certain sectors of the sides of the pistons -- the goal being, IIR, to increase clearance and reduce the chance of seizure (a regular feature of the Mac).

A plug gap of .018 tells you how "mighty" your magneto isn't!

Definitely seek out advice from some of the diehards here who have stuck with Macs. You can't beat that engine for power-to-weight ratio, but that advantage has huge costs. Seizures, ignition issues, bearing issues, noise, unreliable fuel pump, exploding props, scarce parts, flimsy crank, fierce vibration, RPM too high for best prop efficiency... she's a beast straight out of Jurassic Park.

I understand .018 is tiny, especially considering my truck is .045, but that's what it has in it. I don't know why they (previous owner) used automotive plugs. Maybe because the recommended plugs are $25+ Ea.? So a question to other "die-hard" Mac users is, can a Mac run auto plugs without any mods? I haven't heard about "exploding props" except if they are over revved (ie: running a 72 hp prop with a 90 hp motor) but I'm sure that holds true with any motor/prop combination. This Mac DOES have the mechanical fuel pump, but in the Brock KB2 configuration, it also has a pulse pump for redundancy. I get it, this motor is a relic from prehistoric times, but more than likely, it's the only thing that will get my fat@$$ off the ground without extensive modifications to the airframe. Maybe I should just give it up, cross it off my bucket list, and sell it.

 

[Doug Riley]

The issues with the Mac arise, not so much because it's an old design, but because its design mission was that it be disposable.

 

[MikeBoyette]

I definitely plan on doing an introductory lesson, but I'm sure that will only ignite my interest even more. I think the biggest challenge of that will to be able to find an instructor, around San Diego, with an open cockpit gyro, like a KB2, so I know what it would be like to fly my aircraft. Unfortunately, for me, part 103 would be my only option as I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to acquire a medical certificate. Thank you Vance for the advice.

With current Sport Pilot rules you need no medical as you self certify with your DL. This is as long as you have never been denied a medical

 

[BrianInVa]

Hi there fellow pilots. I'm new to flying (actually, I haven't flown yet). Oh yeah, I'm Todd from Escondido California. I've always dreamed of flying ever since I was a little kid. Built a kite and jumped off our 2 story house when I was 8. Jumped off the same house with a military cargo parachute when I was 10. At the same age, I tried to build a helicopter out of wood and an AC motor. At 12, I built a full scale Rogallo hang glider. Parents made me dismantle it before I got my second attempt at flying it. Finally acquired a REAL hang glider when I was 29 and strapped it up in the rafters in my garage where it still sits to this day, unflown. Dreamed of gyroplanes ever since I saw them on Mad Max and James Bond. Which now brings us up to current times, at age 57, where my brother and I spontaneously bought a KB2 in "fair" condition, minus a rotor. It didn't run and by the looks of it, it hasn't in quite a few years. Tank was gelled, carb was gummed up, wiring was deteriorated, and all the fuel lines were wasted. I did finally get it running and it's a beast, but basically it's a parts gyro. Was wondering if tearing it completely down and building it up with some new fabricated parts (airframe, vertical and horizontal stabilizers, 5 gal tank, lounge chair (just kidding) and aluminum wheels) could this be built under the "ultralight" class? <254 lbs. I do plan on trying to get training before ever lifting off the ground, but truth be told, I don't have the money, health, or time left, to go about getting a sport pilot license. I'm also kinda a big guy (6' @ 280 lbs) but working on losing the weight. This is one of those "bucket list" things I feel I gotta do. Sorry for the long intro, and hope I didn't bore you too much, but now you know a little about me. Thanks for taking the time.

Except for several small exceptions and my being on the east coast, our stories, ages, financial constraints and being big guys are eerily similar, and I could have written your post.

I bought a Brock KB2 a month ago. The original Mac was long gone so the seller threw in a Rotax 503. I was able to trade it even up for a Rotax 582. Now I need a bigger prop and I have to modify the frame to accommodate this Rotax and prop.

I just finished my third hour of flight instruction towards a sport pilot certificate. There’s NO WAY I could have passed an FAA medical with a history of strokes, but all that’s required for a sport pilot certificate, as mentioned above, is a valid drivers license.

And I can’t really afford this training either but I’ve been selling “toys” to save up for the instruction, including two older motorcycles. I plan to have my certificate by the end of November, then get gyro instruction somewhere. (I’m not touching this contraption before I’ve finished real training for it.)

The vin plate on my Brock KB2 says it’s 250 lbs - so it’s 250 lbs!



I’ve been reading and researching this issue for months. Conclusion?

1) The majority of part 103 aircraft currently flying are “fat,”
2) The FAA is only concerned whether it holds 5 gallons or less, only has one seat, and does NOT have a tail number.

Unless you’re flying in controlled airspace and making trouble, they have bigger fish to fry.

 

[F5 Tornado]

Except for several small exceptions and my being on the east coast, our stories, ages, financial constraints and being big guys are eerily similar, and I could have written your post.

I bought a Brock KB2 a month ago. The original Mac was long gone so the seller threw in a Rotax 503. I was able to trade it even up for a Rotax 582. Now I need a bigger prop and I have to modify the frame to accommodate this Rotax and prop.

I just finished my third hour of flight instruction towards a sport pilot certificate. There’s NO WAY I could have passed an FAA medical with a history of strokes, but all that’s required for a sport pilot certificate, as mentioned above, is a valid drivers license.

And I can’t really afford this training either but I’ve been selling “toys” to save up for the instruction, including two older motorcycles. I plan to have my certificate by the end of November, then get gyro instruction somewhere. (I’m not touching this contraption before I’ve finished real training for it.)

The vin plate on my Brock KB2 says it’s 250 lbs - so it’s 250 lbs!

View attachment 1162137

I’ve been reading and researching this issue for months. Conclusion?

1) The majority of part 103 aircraft currently flying are “fat,”
2) The FAA is only concerned whether it holds 5 gallons or less, only has one seat, and does NOT have a tail number.

Unless you’re flying in controlled airspace and making trouble, they have bigger fish to fry.

Yeah, it's funny Brian. I was just thinking the same thing also, when I was reading some of your posts. LOL. I was wondering if people were thinking one of us had 2 profiles. As for the FAA's concerns, one of those is correct. It doesn't have two seats. But it does have a number, and the tank is one of those seat/tanks. I think those have over 8 gallons. I've started mine a couple times, but that's about it. It puts out a heck of wind storm. I was blowing pieces of tarp all over my neighbors yard and had to clean it up. LOL. I pretty much have decided that I need mufflers on this thing for sure. It's loud. And just like you, I'm not going to even try to operate this thing until I get training. I don't have a death wish.

 

[BrianInVa]

But it does have a number, and the tank is one of those seat/tanks. I think those have over 8 gallons.

Mine is a five gallon seat tank. Some are seven, a few are ten, but I don’t remember seeing 8 gallon ones? You may want to double check that capacity?

 

[BrianInVa]

But it does have a number

Mine had one on the original tail but I’m replacing It with a tall tail.

 

[GyroChuck]

Mine had one on the original tail but I’m replacing It with a tall tail.

Check to see if the N number is still valid on the FAA site.

https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/

 

[BrianInVa]

Check to see if the N number is still valid on the FAA site.

https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/

 

[F5 Tornado]

Check to see if the N number is still valid on the FAA site.

https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/

N9486 is Deregistered​

Deregistered Aircraft 1 of 3
Serial Number	1	Certificate Issue Date	06/06/1974
Manufacturer Name	PETERSON	Mode S Code (base 8 / oct)	53227012
Model	B-8M	Mode S Code (base 16 / hex)	AD2E0A
Year Manufacturer	1974	Cancel Date	09/12/2012
Reason For Cancellation	Expiration	Export To	None
Type Registration	Individual
Name	PETERSON CARL JR
Street	PO BOX 197
City	KILL DEVIL HILLS
State	NORTH CAROLINA	Zip Code	27948
County	DARE
Country	UNITED STATES
Engine Manufacturer	MCCULLOCH	Classification	Experimental
Engine Model	4318A&E/0-100	Category	Amateur Built
A/W Date	None	Exception Code	No
None
Deregistered Aircraft 2 of 3
Serial Number	1609	Certificate Issue Date	None
Manufacturer Name	KREIDER-REISNER	Mode S Code (base 8 / oct)	53227012
Model	C	Mode S Code (base 16 / hex)	AD2E0A
Year Manufacturer	1934	Cancel Date	02/12/1935
Reason For Cancellation	Cancelled	Export To	None
Type Registration	Corporation

DEREGISTERED AIRCRAFT​

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Aircraft Description​

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Aircraft Registration Prior to Deregistration​

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Deregistered Airworthiness​

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Deregistered Other Owner Names​

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Aircraft Description​

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