I built it so I am going to test it!! NO NO NO!

SandL

Newbie
Hi
can you possibly post some more photos, and is that a hydraulic pipe or flex shaft running to the head, I am no builder but have been picked up in the past for not having it retained, ie, if it should become detached from the top, it may go through the prop. I had to fit mine through a mast clamp, flex shafts have come loose before, It just looks like a long pipe that could give you a bad day if it disconnected.
Posting a few pics will do no harm and it just may save you a lot of damage,
looks like a Very nice machine... nice job !, wish mine looked as good !
 
to a person who is interested in gyro

to a person who is interested in gyro

I wouldn't start out being interested in heavy machines. Enclosed cabins, heavy wings, heavy engines and frames. This works well for the more experienced. The time it takes to get aloft, to change course to get clear and get away from, well, big birds need more time. Some one who is new to gyros might better consider an open frame high efficiency machine with clt.
and an hs. Your CFI will advise you. MJD.
 
I find it interesting that so many see CFI's as being the primary choice for initial test flying.

I'm a military flying instructor, electronic warfare instructor and flight test pilot for my primary type (diagnostic maintenance flight test pilot, not a 'test pilot' in the full Edwards or Boscombe Down sense).

Very little of what I learned as an instructor, of either discipline, is relevant to test flying, even for simple engineering diagnostics for maintenance.

I have several colleagues who are ETPS graduates and I believe that the top two qualification/experience categories best suited to test flying have got to me 'test pilot' or 'diagnostic/maintenance flight test pilot', and in that order.

Some instructors also have this type of training and experience but many more do not. The key difference is that in instruction, the skill is introducing another person to a particular discipline of flying and on a type whose stability, handling and performance characteristics are well known to the instructor.

In test flying, it's about introducing oneself to an aircraft whose stability, handling and performance characteristics are unknown or are only 'ballpark' based on engineering calculations. You're not teaching known stuff, you're trying to find unknown stuff in a way that isn't going to inadvertently put you in other unknown stuff that'll kill you. Test flying requires careful preparation, even more careful test flight management, test result review, retesting as required and slow incremental progression.

If the builder is the guy with that experience, what he/she needs is not another test pilot but a pedantic flight test engineer. i.e. one with an eye for detail and a slightly obnoxious ability to tell the pilot, 'I wouldn't let my worst enemy fly this crate in the state it's in'.

That being said, anyone with performance, stability, handling or systems diagnostic test experience is probably a bit pedantic and will have spotted the problem already, the 2nd opinion flight test engineer is just the safety switch.
 
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PW_Plack

Active Member
I find it interesting that so many see CFI's as being the primary choice for initial test flying...Very little of what I learned as an instructor, of either discipline, is relevant to test flying, even for simple engineering diagnostics for maintenance.
Stew, experimental gyroplanes are a very special case. Many builders are student pilots, because you need your own gyro ready when it comes time to solo. The instructor has to sign the students off for a specific aircraft, and that's a lot to ask until the instructor knows that machine.

Even most experienced gyro pilots fly less than 50 hours a year. The only time they're not rusty may be a few weeks in late summer each year. By comparison, instructors fly tons of hours and stay current, and they're more likely to have experienced the quirks of a given type.
 

Texasautogyro

Gyro Master Instructor
In the past 6 weeks I have flown or examined 5 more gyros. Three would have crashed for sure.

But even so some things cannot be seen that are deadly. The machine may even seem to fly just fine.

In the case of my dear friend Steve Weir no preflight could have seen what was hidden.
He also was a excellent builder but made a simple mistake that cost him his life.

Some mistakes are easy to do. I have seen fuel caps left off on planes that take off fuel streaming out the wing. Or oil caps left off after a preflight check. Maybe chocks or rags left on the back seat.

We have had to many crashed gyros this year from totally preventable problems.
 

jany77

Member
test

test

easy say than done ,in my case I asked at least 5 cfi to get gyroplane training from then and let them to test fly my gyroplane ,they all refused so at this point the gyroplane is just sitting in corner of my hanger waiting for miracle to happen
 
Stew, experimental gyroplanes are a very special case. Many builders are student pilots, because you need your own gyro ready when it comes time to solo. The instructor has to sign the students off for a specific aircraft, and that's a lot to ask until the instructor knows that machine.

Even most experienced gyro pilots fly less than 50 hours a year. The only time they're not rusty may be a few weeks in late summer each year. By comparison, instructors fly tons of hours and stay current, and they're more likely to have experienced the quirks of a given type.
That's a fair explanation!

I've just moved back to Canada from the UK and the scene in the UK has changed a lot in the last 20 years.

The CAA and LAA even run a joint Gyroplane Test Pilot course, tutored by a senior CAA test pilot and former ETPS tutor.

I'm quite interested in test flying having done a bit in the military. Probably not likely to become a profession in North America unless factory built machines start taking a reasonable market share of light rotary aviation.
 

JAL

Member
In the past 6 weeks I have flown or examined 5 more gyros. Three would have crashed for sure.

But even so some things cannot be seen that are deadly. The machine may even seem to fly just fine.

In the case of my dear friend Steve Weir no preflight could have seen what was hidden.
He also was a excellent builder but made a simple mistake that cost him his life.

Some mistakes are easy to do. I have seen fuel caps left off on planes that take off fuel streaming out the wing. Or oil caps left off after a preflight check. Maybe chocks or rags left on the back seat.

We have had to many crashed gyros this year from totally preventable problems.
I once flagged down a C-152 while it was taxiing to the active runway with instructor and student that had the rudder gust lock still attached. The control checks before taxi were obviously not completed but I couldn't work out how they got as far as they did because isn't the rudder and nose wheel directly connected in the c-152. Anyway they hadn't reached the runup area yet so they probably would have picked up then but it happens, just takes a distraction or change in routine and something simple is overlooked.

I think being a test pilot for another person's build is pretty hardcore and would take a lot of courage. Sure does require a professionalism and discipline to make sure it is done safely everytime.

To those that do I tip my hate.
 

SandL

Newbie
I once flagged down a C-152 while it was taxiing to the active runway with instructor and student that had the rudder gust lock still attached. The control checks before taxi were obviously not completed but I couldn't work out how they got as far as they did because isn't the rudder and nose wheel directly connected in the c-152. Anyway they hadn't reached the runup area yet so they probably would have picked up then but it happens, just takes a distraction or change in routine and something simple is overlooked.

I think being a test pilot for another person's build is pretty hardcore and would take a lot of courage. Sure does require a professionalism and discipline to make sure it is done safely everytime.

To those that do I tip my hate.
I seem to remember there is a hard connection between rudder and nose wheel, so not easy to check whilst sitting still, supposed to do it on taxi when you are checking compass and DI with weaving turns.
also in this case possibly the pilots were using the individual toe brakes to turn, not a great technique but it would work I think.
But what about the pre start up walk around? I have often seen CFIs having their coffee in the club house whilst the student does the walk around.
you can also get a well designed gust lock for the stick which prevents insertion of the ignition key with gust lock in place.
 

JEFF TIPTON

Senior Member
The Cessna's have a spring bungee between the rudder pedals and the nose gear, which would allow the ground steering without moving the rudder. It would not have been a pretty takeoff.
 

JEFF TIPTON

Senior Member
Rudder pedals will move full travel with the rudder blocked. Also when the nose gear extends on liftoff it will center straight ahead. Note: The single engine Cessna's are not equipped with a rudder lock.
 

Texasautogyro

Gyro Master Instructor
I have been doing more tuning on several gyros this week. One was observing the MTO on floats in Florida and also test flew the Apollo.
 

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Redbaron

Banned
so that's what an instructor is . you mean their not meant to be thrown out of the plane at 5000 ft for telling me what I can and can't do.
 

Texasautogyro

Gyro Master Instructor
So what did you think of the Apollo vs the MTO Desmon ?
Actually I was helping resolve small issues like performance problems. Prop pitch stick shake those king of things. So I did tight turns death spirals and zoom climbs. We also did all the normal kinds of checks. We had two of us in it. Of course we always want more power. I am sure if the small changes are made it will smooth out the things the owner was interested in checking.
 

CLS447

Platinum Member
So what did you think of the Apollo vs the MTO Desmon ?
Desmon, reread his question . I think he is asking for a comparison between the 2. (price, quality, value, handleing, power,etc.). I.d like to hear your opinion on that also ?

What is the story on the Apollo ?

The MTO on floats seems to be pretty deep in the water for one person. Is that a 914 on it ?
 
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Texasautogyro

Gyro Master Instructor
I did not fly it to evaluate those issues.

Total time might have been say 20 min. With min fuel about 6 gal.
If I am doing a flight review to compare I use a criteria that is always as equal as possible.
This was simply not the case.

I did not ask the cost. The blades I think are the same kind arrow copter uses. They have a cord width about 3/4 inch bigger then an MTO or Magni. This seems to produce a lot of float. But the head has a special way to adjust it. The landing gear is close to what you find on a trike. It's weight maybe about 70 lbs heavier.


This is the best I can offer at the moment. I did not really explore top speed vx vy slow flight or full envelope flying. I did do some nice peddle turns that seemed smooth.
 
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