I built it so I am going to test it!! NO NO NO!

Texasautogyro

Gyro Master Instructor
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
1,751
Location
Tomball Texas
Aircraft
AutoGyro MTO Sport/Cessna 172
Total Flight Time
3800 with over 1900 in gyro
In the past 12 months I have had the chance to test 12 gyros and live. In this process only 3 were safe 9 had problems that could have killed the pilots. Of the 3 that were safe 2 I assisted in the building. I did not assist in any of the others. This is not a good track record.

Problems included wrong rudder control problems, 2 engine out problems 2 fuel problems, throttle control reverse problems. Rotor head problems, Trim control issues, landing gear problems, Pre rotator problems engaging in flight.

Many gyros had more then one issue. Some were caught before flight thank heavens. We caught a fuel line leaking and found no hose clamp was put on the pressure side of the fuel pump. I found a rudder cable not adjusted correct and the turn buckle only held by 2 threads with no safety wire.

All of these had been inspected and airworthiness certificates issued. I am grateful to have helped the owners check them first and maybe saved a life or two. Several had already been flown in these bad conditions and I was told things like something just does not seem right. Then asked if I could give an opinion.

In these cases the pilots and would be pilots used good ADM and asked for a second set of eyes.

Do not! I repeat DO NOT Test fly your own machine unless you have extensive time doing just that!

Do Not buy a machine you have not seen fly!!! This meaning taking someone’s word for it. If its a kit fine but get people that know what they are doing to help you do it. Then get a qualified pilot to test it.
 
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Timchick

Tim Chick
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Panama City, Florida
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Sport Copter Vortex, 582 Greyhead
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~30
Good advise. If you are building a gyro and there's a flyin in your area take it to the flyin and have some of the experienced builders/pilots check it over. Even if it's not finished. I took my Sport Copter to Bensen Days this year and received my airworthiness certificate. This did not mean it was ready for me to jump in the seat and fly it. It still needed some control adjustments, etc before it was ready for flight. Thankfully a couple experienced pilots showed me several things that needed adjusting before it was ready for flight.
 

GyrOZprey

Aussie in Kansas.
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Whitewater KS
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Butterfly Aurora N5560Z / Titanium Explorer N456TE & N488TE/ - trained in MTOsport 446QT/488FB
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730
Even when one thinks they did it right!!

Even when one thinks they did it right!!

& got the kit manufacturer to check it all out & test-fly ......stuff happens! :eek:
:censored: :tape:

Having TWO independant experienced gyrobuilders/pilots take a VERY close look at ALL new builds ...as I was told by by Allan W. is the the way it's done in OZ ... at least the ones who want ASRA rego/blessing! ( Of course there are many who still do-it-their-way ..outside of ASRA control ... trying to stay under the regulations radar!!:spy:)

Sounds like a GOOD PLAN - to me!!!! :D
 

Mike484

AR-1 🇺🇸
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Sep 1, 2008
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4,523
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Houston, Texas
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RAF 2000 w/Horizontal stabilizer, KB3 w/tall tail
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40+
A very good reason to belong to a club where you can get the help you need.
Air Worthiness inspection is usually performed by someone who has no idea what they are looking at except for how the machine was built, not if it can fly or not. An airworthiness certificate does not mean to just jump in and fly.
 

Texasautogyro

Gyro Master Instructor
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
1,751
Location
Tomball Texas
Aircraft
AutoGyro MTO Sport/Cessna 172
Total Flight Time
3800 with over 1900 in gyro
A very good reason to belong to a club where you can get the help you need.
Air Worthiness inspection is usually performed by someone who has no idea what they are looking at except for how the machine was built, not if it can fly or not. An airworthiness certificate does not mean to just jump in and fly.
We are the exception in Texas. Very few clubs have the kind of great talent we have.
 

Texasautogyro

Gyro Master Instructor
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
1,751
Location
Tomball Texas
Aircraft
AutoGyro MTO Sport/Cessna 172
Total Flight Time
3800 with over 1900 in gyro
This should be interesting...



I should have said, Houston has two Gyro CFI's in the area. Mark Spies A & P Danny Whitten who has flown about everything. Mike Grosshans one of most helpful guys around, Steve Weir helps with tig welds and all kinds of special build tips. Many others that have years of flying about everything under the sun. We also have A few of us that have been to Rotax school as well. This just gives us a boost toward helping us keep people safe.

Many people do not have this kind of resourse in a close proximity.
 

farmer jim

Newbie
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
712
Location
whitewater KS
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Butterfly Turbo Golden
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100+ FW/ 6.5 gyro
Wouldn't it be GREATGREATGREAT had I the knowledge & WISDOM to listen to the smart/wise ones on this Forum ??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fj :der:
 

Mike484

AR-1 🇺🇸
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
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Location
Houston, Texas
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RAF 2000 w/Horizontal stabilizer, KB3 w/tall tail
Total Flight Time
40+
Rotor Guy,
Even if you could come up with a list of 10 clubs (highly doubt you can) that have the senergy that we have, that would still be considered very few.

Chapter 62 offers it's membership:
2 - CFIs, one local, one very close, getting proper training has become very easy
1 - AP mechanic
1 - Certified Ground School Instructor
Members with over 30 years time in our sport and the PRA
Several very good pilots, one with over 30 years flying and has flown just about every make of gyro built
Several members that can help with a build, including a professional machinist
Our own hangar with 11 - 12 gyros present at all times
A fully geared hangar with tools, equipment, and supplies to support a build, modifications, or repairs
A very active group where you can almost always find activity every Saturday, many Saturdays we have 10 or more people at the hangar and some flying going on
Many 2 place machines where you can get a ride, not just watch
Monthly membership meetings
Regional newsletter


But, the reason for this thread is to inform people to not go it alone, get help from someone who knows, I'm sorry if I hijacked it.
 
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Mike484

AR-1 🇺🇸
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
4,523
Location
Houston, Texas
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RAF 2000 w/Horizontal stabilizer, KB3 w/tall tail
Total Flight Time
40+
Wouldn't it be GREATGREATGREAT had I the knowledge & WISDOM to listen to the smart/wise ones on this Forum ??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fj :der:
Just have to make sure your careful on who you consider the wise ones.
Information that is passed on from experience and knowledge is irreplaceable.
Information that is passed on because "they read it on the forum" can be lethal.
 

farmer jim

Newbie
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
712
Location
whitewater KS
Aircraft
Butterfly Turbo Golden
Total Flight Time
100+ FW/ 6.5 gyro
Thanx, Mike !!

Now let's see if I can DO WHAT WE'RE TALKIN ABOUT !

(I do believe there's hope !)

fj
 

Stan V

Newbie
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
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1,271
Location
Monticello, GA
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Piper Arrow/RAF2000
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450
Originally Posted by Texasautogyro View Post
We are the exception in Texas. Very few clubs have the kind of great talent we have.
I think chapter 62 and Peachstate 56 are 2 more. 56 has 2 CFIs, 1 AI and at least 1 A&P that I know of. You may be an exception in Texas.
 

cgmg

Senior Member
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Oct 30, 2003
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1,149
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El Paso, IL.
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Empty hangar right now, have owned and flown Air Command & RAF
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375
Our instructor inspected, adjusted, and test flew our single-place before we were allowed in it to practice with.

When I finished my RAF, I had two different friends test fly it before I did.

With both machines, while at various fly-ins with each, someone suggested improvements to each. So, even after you think it's good, another set of eyes may pick up things that could be improved, or are still unsafe and need to be corrected.

It's nice to know there are getting to be more clubs with A&P's, machinists, and experienced test pilots available to new pilots(and old).
 

GA Rotor Guy

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Nov 27, 2012
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Atlanta GA area
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Single Dominator
Pass me another Popcorn and soda... I said this would be fun to watch... <grin>

We have an A&P, a couple of FW pilots, and soon to be a CFI in our chapter... and cumulatively many decades of gyro experience from a number of gentleman that are practice caution and wisdom. That is enough for me.

BTW: I am from Houston... :)
 

Rene Genest

Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2006
Messages
45
Location
Quebec
Aircraft
Bensen and RAF 2000
Here in Quebec city, the gyro business is so young. Actually, our CFIs have merely less than 1000 hours of experience in gyro which they got by the last two years, I'm private licenced on Cessna and I own a RAF 2000 since three years which I will have to fly by my own after flying on a DTA gyro nearby at ULP Aviation. Soon I expect to fly with a CFI in US on his RAF 2000 and get some experience to fly my own RAF after. Can you imagine the amount of questions I will ask to this RAF CFI? Here, we have no support at all for RAF. If I'll survive this, I will become the most experienced guy in the province for RAF, even with so little experience.
 

feedpro

Newbie
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
292
Location
Chadron, NE
Aircraft
Sonex homebuilt, Vortex M912
Total Flight Time
6700+ 96 hours gyro
There are different descriptions of "help". If your gyro friends are helping you assemble your gyro, then you are asking for real trouble. Did every fastener get installed correctly? I will not let anyone help me build. I am the one who makes sure every small job is completed exactly right, then I move on to the next job. How do you know that your helpers are doing things correctly?
A second, third and forth set of eyes on a completed machine has real value. Everyone will find something wrong, or maybe not exactly right.
The only person (besides me) who will fly my Vortex is Jim Vanek.
 

SandL

Newbie
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
1,392
Location
Royal Wootton Bassett... UK
Aircraft
Bensen Merlin dragon wings Rotax 532
Total Flight Time
400hrs (4,000 instructional launches) gliding, 200 fixed wing, 100 gyro
you really should contact Gary Layzell who now lives in the south of France.
He knows a lot about gyro construction and to ask him to give it a look over may save your life. Also Tony Melody a very experienced gyro pilot instructor will travel and probably test fly it for you. he has flown many, many different types and has carried out more inspections than any other UK inspector. He can and does travel around the world to train and inspect and he is very reasonably priced. please consider both these options before flying your machine. A few bob spent now could save you a fortune in time, repair bills and possibly your life. They are both very nice guys with a thousand stories, 2 hours listening to Tony is worth weeks of training ! he test flew some gyros a few years ago, and had 3 engine failures in 1 day, which totalled 5 in 1 week end ! he is the man for you !
 
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