I agree the gyroplane accident rate is too high;

[TyroGyro]

A new understanding on the phrase "blind drunk", peut-être?

 

[JETLAG03]

@TyroGyro "La validité de ces résultats est cependant limitée en raison du délai entre le décès du pilote et l’autopsie" = states the validity of the results cannot be confirmed due to the delay between the death and autopsy, play fair. That report makes such sad reading. A pilot of some years standing (1993). I do find that there are some very distinct differences between French and English attitude in many respects. My personal experience in the UK, not in flying but in other senarios, is that if one sees a friend/colleague about to do something "inadvisable" that often, a word in the ear occurs, and that may be sufficient to avert an incident. Here in France, and it may be because I am a Brit, it does not "seem"to be the same.

 

[Rotormouse]

Yes Shirley it is difficult but, although it took a while, we managed to preserve a way to keep the single seat route open expensive and difficult as it is. At least we do have I think a reasonable syllabus that when followed should produce a safe single seat pilot.
Tony remains the only Instructor/Examiner in Eire though Shay Bennan is now a qualified Instructor, and we produced their syllabus for two seat and single.

There are I think possibly two or three besides Tony who can do single seat instruction, Chris Jones up in Kirkbride/Carlisle is one, I think David Beevers another, I believe Phil Bennet has expressed interest, Tony and I were with Andy Jones in Wales when he converted to single seat and he was sharing Tim Morely’s LA-8 and he has expressed interest. Mike Concannon in Ireland who is presently intending to produce the LA-8 does have I think three he is building for people, one of whom may be Andy.

At this stage I continue to assist Tony and love doing so but have given up the idea of continuing the rating as I am neither interested in doing it as a profession or buying a two seater either to fly or to train on. I had been a fixed wing Instructor for many years and just enjoy passing on the little knowledge I have. Viv who was also doing it with us I think has dropped the idea but continues to join us at Enstone where Tony and I continue with three of his single seat students.

I think there may slowly be some interest building in single seaters in the UK as the two seaters are pretty expensive to buy and run. There certainly aren’t many active single seat gyros around. Francis down in St Meryn has a friend building one who is interested. He has a couple in the hanger, a Bensen which I will be flying this summer, ( COVID willing), has taken nearly two years to get a permit to test, let alone fly. G-BCGB which I was flying has been in bits for a while. Working on the new one, which has now been slowed by the present virus lockdown.
(Doesn’t life get in the way sometimes.)

Chris and David aren’t doing singles anymore, Leigh. I asked because several people have been in touch through the website asking for help, and there are very few positives I can offer.

Lucky you, flying at St. Merryn after it was ‘closed.’ Not heard a word from him since the day I gave my keys back.
Would still have been teaching rotor handling with the gyro-glider…

 

[JETLAG03]

Hi Shirley. Shame about the lock down I was really looking forward to the Bois de la pierre rassemblement. I had already checked we could park our motorhome and bring my Deluc "Pipster" . Maybe it will be re-scheduled once we have the all clear?

 

[TyroGyro]

A new understanding on the phrase "blind drunk", peut-être?

And for balance, and completeness...

Suggestive of a medical-event. [previous heart-attack, and below-par in the days prior to the accident]

https://www.bea.aero/uploads/tx_elydbrapports/BEA2016-0353.pdf

 

[JETLAG03]

It is also a point that for a ULM licence in France, one has ONE medical examination that declares " there are no known reasons why X should not carry out the persuit of Y" this is a once off examination, there is no requirement for further medical during one ULM (microlight) flying life in France. "Y" is added as the same medical examination can be for numerous things, joining a gym, sports club, cycling club etc etc. It is, part of the "liberty" of French life.


@TyroGyro also maybe a hint of what you suggested in a previous posting "it has never happened to me prior ....therefore"

 

[Acamacho]

[QUOTE = "JETLAG03, publicación: 1154843, miembro: 24294"]
También es un punto que para una licencia ULM en Francia, uno tiene UN examen médico que declara que "no hay razones conocidas por las cuales X no debe llevar a cabo la búsqueda de Y", este es un examen único, no hay requisitos para más médico durante una vida de vuelo ULM (ultraligero) en Francia. Se agrega "Y" ya que el mismo examen médico puede ser para numerosas cosas, unirse a un gimnasio, club deportivo, club de ciclismo, etc. Es parte de la "libertad" de la vida francesa.


[USER = 22598] @TyroGyro [/ USER] también puede ser una pista de lo que sugirió en una publicación anterior "nunca me ha sucedido antes ... por lo tanto"
[/CITAR]Good for France.

 

[Tyger]

@TyroGyro "La validité de ces résultats est cependant limitée en raison du délai entre le décès du pilote et l’autopsie" = states the validity of the results cannot be confirmed due to the delay between the death and autopsy, play fair.

Play fair?? In the US you can't fly if you've had even one drink within eight hours. It seems pretty clear that these guys had barely even started drinking eight hours prior to the fatal flight.
I also find it amazing that no one reported the guy missing till the next day (the délai in the autopsy was because he was only found three days later).
"Il convient de rappeler que la consommation d’alcool désinhibe et contribue à diminuer la vigilance." And I thought it was the Brits who were famous for understatement.

 

[JETLAG03]

@Tyger my comment "play fair" was reference @TyroGyro comment "blind drunk" . The report did not say blind drunk (he may have been I don't know) but was unable to verify the amount of alcohol due to the delay between death and autopsy.

I personally, I agree entirely with zero alcohol for driving and flying, sadly, not everyone is the same

edited to change my comment to "play fair" not "fair play"

 

[TyroGyro]

As we all probably have time on our hands, it might be an opportunity to continue with some formal analysis on the previous accidents thread.
I've added, chronologically, another

Modern Generation Accident Statistics

What can you say when someone flies fast and low and flies into wires? He was distracted by his friends on the ground and should be aware of wires near an airfield as part of his flight planning even if he had never been there before. The last time I looked wires were still the number one...

www.rotaryforum.com

 

[Rotormouse]

Hi Shirley. Shame about the lock down I was really looking forward to the Bois de la pierre rassemblement. I had already checked we could park our motorhome and bring my Deluc "Pipster" . Maybe it will be re-scheduled once we have the all clear?

Hi Phil

yes, it was decided yesterday during the weekly virtual apero that it won’t be going ahead. Gutted, but it’s the right decision at the moment, sadly. Can’t even watch them on the webcam either – getting serious withdrawal symptoms!

We’re hoping to have some kind of gathering in September, but time will tell. The virus only reached our village last week so this a long way from being over, unfortunately.

Stay safe – it'll be worth the wait.

 

[Rotormouse]

Good afternoon Shirley,

I don’t know how other countries do it or even how it is commonly done in the USA.

The FAA does not limit the gyroplanes I can train in.

Most of my friends will not train in a single seat gyroplane.

I do not have a lot of flight time in single seat gyroplanes so I may not be the best choice for a single seat flight instructor.

I teach a client to fly in a two place tandem until I feel they are ready to solo.

There is a fairly extensive FAA list of requirements to solo including a knowledge test that I must keep in their file and correct all the wrong answers with the client.

After a careful condition inspection done by a mechanic I trust, I fly their aircraft until I feel like I understand the differences so I can transition them into their single seat gyroplane in the preflight briefing.

We develop check lists for their model gyroplane.

I encourage them to interact with pilots of similar gyroplanes.

I solo them in their single seat with very low wind limits and watch them carefully.

I emphasize rotor management, balancing on the mains and crow hops unless it is something similar to a Dominator.

I fly from an 8,000 foot runway and encourage gentle increases in power for takeoff.

I have also done solos at El Mirage dry lake although I prefer my airport.

I start with power on landings and slowly transition to engine at idle landings.

I slowly increase their wind limits and eventually they build up to solo cross country to airports we have flown to in the tandem.

It is a lengthy process and not cheap.

I have a designated pilot examiner that will issue them a Sport Pilot, Gyroplane rating watching them from the ground limited to single seat privileges.

If they get their Sport Pilot, Gyroplane rating in a two place the FAA allows them to fly a single place with no additional training.

I feel this is a bad idea and encourage clients to get additional instruction to transition into a single place or even a different model two place than they trained in.

Looks very good to me, Vance!

 

[TyroGyro]

Interesting video. He employs a very similar methodology to my own analysis of gyro safety.

The article he refers to: https://www.aviationconsumer.com/maintenance/lsa-accident-review-nothing-to-celebrate/

I think the evidence shows the Big-3 Eurotub gyros are safer than Light Sports fixed-wing, and in some countries, far safer, in terms of fatals.
Accidents seem to be concentrated in a few countries [after adjusting for national fleet size], probably for the reasons discussed previously.
Regulatory, training, environmental, even cultural....

I also think the global fatal accident rate in these gyros peaked about 10 years ago, and has been in gradual but steady decline since.

 

[Resasi]

Great video and some interesting facts.

Light stick forces, landing and TO’s, hit the nail on the head.

 

[DavePA11]

Many of the light sport accidents for taildraggers were due to private pilots transitioning from nose wheel planes (Cessnas) without the proper training. I witnessed many even some instructors who thought they could fly a taildragger without instruction. Good video.

 

[Resasi]

My first tailwheel landing is forever imprinted upon my memory...and no doubt that of my Instructor. Nothing bent or broken, except for an ego, but memorable.

It did however serve me well, and with thousands of hours of tailwheel time, I never repeated that particular type of excursion.

And in keeping with the thread, I certainly learned from that!

 

[TyroGyro]

Cavalon crash in the Czech Republic last week

Pilot survived with minor injuries...

 

[Vance]

There must be quite a story that goes with that.

I would love to read more about it.

In the dirt going fast and smack into wires that might be four feet high.

I would guess a takeoff mishap with the cyclic centered and waiting for it to take off with airspeed.

I suspect the aircraft is not repairable.

Glad the pilot only received minor injuries.

 

[WaspAir]

Lucky drivers on the road, too!

 

[Greg Vos]

Cavalon crash in the Czech Republic last week
https://v.denik.cz/2020/04/30/070/video-1588270395.mp4
Pilot survived with minor injuries...

Tyrogyro how do you get this info? Like you I have a interest in gyro accidents and wish to learn from them, if the pilot got minor injuries he was lucky, the deceleration must have been huge?

in this case unless he was suffering a control surface tech issue I say he was being stupid and yes he is very lucky