Hill Helicopters HX50

[magknight]

I haven’t seen much on the forum about Hill other than a couple of comments comparing to PAL-V for raising money with deposits before there’s a flying unit. It’s a really ambitious project that, if successful, will change the helicopter industry. They are building a ground up turbine powered, all composite, 5 seat luxury helicopter. They are developing the engine, the airframe, and the avionics (including autopilot). You’ll hear the term vertical integration a million times throughout their videos, but that’s legitimately what they’re doing. It’s funded by Hill and through the deposits of pre-order clients (over 1300 orders). Where they’re different from other false start startups is the level of development transparency. They publish videos frequently on the progress and hold AMA calls (ask me anything) regularly. If they pull it off, they’ll have a 750k turbine luxury helicopter in a market where the number 1 seller (Robinson) hasn’t made any meaningful innovation in 40 years. To put it into perspective, a new Robinson R44Raven II is about 700-800k depending on on how it’s outfitted. Now keep in mind this is a factory build assist experimental version (HX50). The commercial will come later and seems like it’ll add 150-200k on the price. Still would be a game changer. I’m always rooting for the innovator, I truly hope they succeed.

So other than comments about it being too expensive. I’d be interested to hear thoughts on the design itself.

Luxury Private Helicopter - HILL HELICOPTERS

Hill Helicopters’ mission is to fully disrupt the general aviation market with a revolutionary aircraft design. Discover our HX50 Luxury Private Helicopter.

www.hillhelicopters.com

 

[persil]

Hi. I am following this project development since they publicly announced it couple of years back (I think it was in 2020). Any way - initially I was quite skeptical - I remember mainly because they were developing new helicopter and its powerplant at the same time (they still do). I know couple of such examples from history of rotorcraft and it actually never ended well. But I put close attention to Mr Hill's attitude and what he says on their live updates - assessing technicalities. Now I am believer that they will manufacture a great helicopter with a great engine.

There is couple of bits that made thing so. One you mentioned - a vertical integration. This is in opposition to what big players do. I am browsing helicopter related news on a daily basis and everyday I see news that company A signed contract with company B for development of "that". Often I think in my mind that such companies (like Bell, Sikorsky, Airbus) they must have way too much tie-guys and very little engineers so they have to outsource almost everything - and that cost money and time (which is money). Compare it to the companies in the late 1940's and 1950's - such as Siebel, Kaman, Piasecki, Hiller - then, a small group of people was able to come up with a design, usually put tugether in a single place (barn like), which after some refinements over years are stiil flying now.

Other bit that turned me, is that they do not throw down the open doors. They use simple well established solutions and techniques. Actually Mr Hill emphasized it many times. See its rotor system - very simple and reliable design - can bee seen on all Hughes/MD's 500 series or in an experimental helicopters like Aerokopter AK1-3 (and like a dosen of its clones). Then there is a classic swash-plate. Collective-cyclic mixing also very simple and also visible on successfull helicopters from the past - like Bolkov Bo105, EC135 etc. Main rotor gerabox - standard design - bevel gears and planetary stage. Tail rotor - used in production helicopters since 1970's (Sud Aviation Gazelle). Engine - although they changed its design over time, both designs are known and nothing fancy there (initialy it had three separated compustion chambers - see attachment, now it has one around engine like in most engines). Composite-material airframe is also nothing new - they even not use pre-preg fabrics, but the pretty much classic resin infusion process (like RC modelers do for decades with refrigirator compressor as a vacuum pump)

Because of the above design features the HX50 will for sure have very nice flight characteristics - I mean it should be very easy for a newbie pilot to hover it.

 

[persil]

There will be new live update on the next Wednesday - 16th of October. Need to register and the will be able to watch it:

HX50 Monthly Update & AMA - HILL HELICOPTERS

You are invited to join in the HX50 Monthly Update & AMA sessions led by Jason Hill direct from the hangar of the Hill Development Centre. These are lively and informative events, with hands-on demonstrations of the latest developments from the HX50 program.

www.hillhelicopters.com

 

[magknight]

There will be new live update on the next Wednesday - 16th of October. Need to register and the will be able to watch it:

HX50 Monthly Update & AMA - HILL HELICOPTERS

You are invited to join in the HX50 Monthly Update & AMA sessions led by Jason Hill direct from the hangar of the Hill Development Centre. These are lively and informative events, with hands-on demonstrations of the latest developments from the HX50 program.

www.hillhelicopters.com

I’m registered!

 

[WaspAir]

If they pull it off, they’ll have a 750k turbine luxury helicopter in a market where the number 1 seller (Robinson) hasn’t made any meaningful innovation in 40 years.

Fly an R22 HP and then step into an R66, and you'll rethink that claim.

 

[magknight]

Fly an R22 HP and then step into an R66, and you'll rethink that claim.

I’ve flown both. The R66 is hardly innovative, it’s basically a turbine R44. Engine management is largely mechanical (no FADEC) and the aerodynamics and interior design follow the original. While I agree that there’s a big jump from the R22HP (what I started in) to the R66, it’s been small incremental improvements along the way. Not knocking them, that’s a very safe way to improve their line. They have never been pushed to do anything different. Their competition is either out of business or sticking with the same plan of small incremental improvements (look at the Bell 505 as an example).

 

[magknight]

Fly an R22 HP and then step into an R66, and you'll rethink that claim.

Additionally the R66 is $1.4mm USD with a 12 year mandatory rebuild. The depreciation rate of Robinsons is massive. The industry needs better options.

 

[WaspAir]

Perhaps we differ in that I think that taking many small steps is no less innovative than fewer bigger ones. Perhaps less dramatic, but the result is lots of net change either way.

 

[bryancobb]

Robinson obviously did SOMETHING right over the last 40 years! They've built and sold 13,000 helicopters without selling to the US military. For comparison, Bell has sold 35,000, including military sales, in 85 years.

 

[bryancobb]

Hi. I am following this project development since they publicly announced it couple of years back (I think it was in 2020). Any way - initially I was quite skeptical - I remember mainly because they were developing new helicopter and its powerplant at the same time (they still do). I know couple of such examples from history of rotorcraft and it actually never ended well. But I put close attention to Mr Hill's attitude and what he says on their live updates - assessing technicalities. Now I am believer that they will manufacture a great helicopter with a great engine.

There is couple of bits that made thing so. One you mentioned - a vertical integration. This is in opposition to what big players do. I am browsing helicopter related news on a daily basis and everyday I see news that company A signed contract with company B for development of "that". Often I think in my mind that such companies (like Bell, Sikorsky, Airbus) they must have way too much tie-guys and very little engineers so they have to outsource almost everything - and that cost money and time (which is money). Compare it to the companies in the late 1940's and 1950's - such as Siebel, Kaman, Piasecki, Hiller - then, a small group of people was able to come up with a design, usually put tugether in a single place (barn like), which after some refinements over years are stiil flying now.

Other bit that turned me, is that they do not throw down the open doors. They use simple well established solutions and techniques. Actually Mr Hill emphasized it many times. See its rotor system - very simple and reliable design - can bee seen on all Hughes/MD's 500 series or in an experimental helicopters like Aerokopter AK1-3 (and like a dosen of its clones). Then there is a classic swash-plate. Collective-cyclic mixing also very simple and also visible on successfull helicopters from the past - like Bolkov Bo105, EC135 etc. Main rotor gerabox - standard design - bevel gears and planetary stage. Tail rotor - used in production helicopters since 1970's (Sud Aviation Gazelle). Engine - although they changed its design over time, both designs are known and nothing fancy there (initialy it had three separated compustion chambers - see attachment, now it has one around engine like in most engines). Composite-material airframe is also nothing new - they even not use pre-preg fabrics, but the pretty much classic resin infusion process (like RC modelers do for decades with refrigirator compressor as a vacuum pump)

Because of the above design features the HX50 will for sure have very nice flight characteristics - I mean it should be very easy for a newbie pilot to hover it.

Success or failure will depend on a robust, low maintenance, reliable, economical drivetrain and rotor system.

 

[magknight]

Robinson obviously did SOMETHING right over the last 40 years! They've built and sold 13,000 helicopters without selling to the US military. For comparison, Bell has sold 35,000, including military sales, in 85 years.

They’ve done a lot right! I’m not knocking what they’ve accomplished, but you have to admit they haven’t changed much over those 40 years. There have been advancements in materials, instrumentation, engines that haven’t made their way into most GA helicopters.