HELP!! Need some advice on tracking my Mosquito

OK Floppy! sorry for the fundamental junk, but I had no Idea of the person and the machine that was involved. Now I do.
g) As you probably know, all geometric BS must be checked and recorded to establish the start point.
h) If I were doing my own Mosquito, I'd start by confirming that some possum-eating Pennsyltuckian hasn't lifted upward or let their 14 year old grandchild hang from the blades and ruined them.
i) As a minimum, I'd remove the blades 1 at a time. Weigh them to the nearest gram. Then strap the root underside snug to a long flat table and see what the tip does. Check and record tip incidence/twist if any from root to tip. Then balance the blade spanwise on a row of utility-knife blades and determine and record the exact distance to the spanwise CG, FROM THE ROOT.
j) When both blades are done, compare the numbers. Worse case-this will tell you to saw the blades into and scrap them.
k) Before you can proceed, both blades must match. Serial no's are probably sequential or a & b etc.
l) Inspect with a bright, 36"+ fluorescent light, top & bottom looking for the ever-so-slight wrinkling/debond. Wrinkling between rivets on underside means the blade has been pulled down and ruined, Wrinkles on top mean a ham-fisted pilot was doing autos and had the collective up in his armpit during touchdown and forgot to put it down while rpm was still high. The blade turns to spaghetti when centrifugal force gets low and angle of attack is high.

NOTE: I would not be suggesting all this if you hadn't presented the case as being problematic. Truth seems to be...you just don't KNOW THE HELICOPTER ...yet :) Just be patient with me please. I'm really trying to help you. I can usually get vibes on a 2 blade helicopter below 0.03 IPS. To do that though, the machine and blades have to be real close to perfect. In my experience, 0.30 IPS will break things if you keep flying.
In the FAA's opinion 0.30 is safe. They make no claims about when your helicopter will crack or your pitch links will wear-out.

More Later.
Sounds like I will be diving in deep again. Thanks
 
So do you agree with the suggestions I'm making? Track & Balance usually is very straight forward if everything is in "like new" condition. One invisible issue and getting it smooth becomes impossible. I had a guy who wanted my help in-person once. I started checking stuff. One blade in the matched pair had its' spanwise CG about 6" closer to the root than the other blade. After a tap-test told me something was not right?? I had an NDT level II come out and x-ray the blades. One had a 6LB tip weight built-up inside at blade manufacture. The other blade had been secretly "rebuilt" with an earlier revision drawing with a much smaller inertia block. Balancing was impossible.
 
So do you agree with the suggestions I'm making? Track & Balance usually is very straight forward if everything is in "like new" condition. One invisible issue and getting it smooth becomes impossible. I had a guy who wanted my help in-person once. I started checking stuff. One blade in the matched pair had its' spanwise CG about 6" closer to the root than the other blade. After a tap-test told me something was not right?? I had an NDT level II come out and x-ray the blades. One had a 6LB tip weight built-up inside at blade manufacture. The other blade had been secretly "rebuilt" with an earlier revision drawing with a much smaller inertia block. Balancing was impossible.
Yes I agree with you and understand checking the blades out. I had a serious problem with a Baby Bell. I thought the blades were going into flutter due to their chordwise cg being out of wack.

The only issue I have is that I do not have any engineering data to compare my finding against. IE where on MAC should my CW CG be, 25%, 30% etc., where is the spanwise CG supposed to be located. I can locate the spanwise CG and compare them against each other. I am not getting any noticeable lateral vibration and or shaking, so I assume my spanwise balance is OK. The blades static balance perfectly without using any weight. The blade twist could be different and I can check that. If the blades torsional and lateral stiffness is not the same then that could be an issue. That would be difficult for me to determine. Maybe I could use weight hung of the tip and measure the deflection? Do something similar for the twisting moment?

I need to check out the swashplate and all the rodend bearings for any play. Difficult to do as access is very limited. I may have to pull out the entire assemble with the mast and support. I do not detect any play from the top of the MR head control rods.
 
Totally agree @bryancobb
Have found over the years that blades are all over the place, we have found that the blades with 300+ grams difference.
We have a jig to weigh the root and tip and work to 2 grams, think of con-rod balance on auto engines.
Also the hub balance is the place to start you need a balancer to do this, run the hub to flying RPM and balance that.
On the Chadwick we normally get 0.01 or staring.
 
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So do you agree with the suggestions I'm making? Track & Balance usually is very straight forward if everything is in "like new" condition. One invisible issue and getting it smooth becomes impossible. I had a guy who wanted my help in-person once. I started checking stuff. One blade in the matched pair had its' spanwise CG about 6" closer to the root than the other blade. After a tap-test told me something was not right?? I had an NDT level II come out and x-ray the blades. One had a 6LB tip weight built-up inside at blade manufacture. The other blade had been secretly "rebuilt" with an earlier revision drawing with a much smaller inertia block. Balancing was impossible.
Bryan,
Was this a set of Dragon Wings?
 
I have a Mosquito Air and have almost identical issues as floppywing. Would it be possible to bend the reflex in the blades at 75% span or is a separate riveted tab the way to go?
 
I have a Mosquito Air and have almost identical issues as floppywing. Would it be possible to bend the reflex in the blades at 75% span or is a separate riveted tab the way to go?
Don't do it. The factory has carefully made sure the TE was reflexed just the correct amount to make the "feel" of the collective to be both right, and safe! You are supposed to be able to briefly remove your hand from the collective without it changing very much AND THAT IT NEVER INCREASES! The collective increasing by-itself when you take your hand off is both VERY DANGEROUS and can cause your machine to takeoff by itself if the right situation lines up. If you mess with the reflex, you could also cause your cyclic to "swirl" which is undesirable.
 
Floppy, have you made any progress since we last communicated?
 
Floppy, have you made any progress since we last communicated?
The first thing you need is some type of gauge to measure the reflex trailing edge angle. without it you are just playing with yourself.No matter how good blades are made and adjusted at the factory over time they change. Trim tabs may be a little extreme. you need to be able to measure the TE to know where they are. Helicycle blades the entire TE was considered a trim tab and was adjusted for flight. on our blades if the stick shook or stirred while on the ground we knew it would shake in flight. after adjustments were made if the stick shake got better we knew we were going in the right direction. I did find a company while back that made a stick on tape that they applied to the TE of the blade for tracking. It looked like it increased the thickness of the TE in that area similar to if you were to bend the tab up. I tried this with Gorilla tape and it did work. I stuck a 1/4x6 inch on the TE or the suspect blade and the stick shake went away. it was temporary fix to see what what the TE needed to be bent. Be aware that this also can throw the dynamic balance out a little bit. again this was only a temporary fix test.

Doug
 
The first thing you need is some type of gauge to measure the reflex trailing edge angle. without it you are just playing with yourself.No matter how good blades are made and adjusted at the factory over time they change. Trim tabs may be a little extreme. you need to be able to measure the TE to know where they are. Helicycle blades the entire TE was considered a trim tab and was adjusted for flight. on our blades if the stick shook or stirred while on the ground we knew it would shake in flight. after adjustments were made if the stick shake got better we knew we were going in the right direction. I did find a company while back that made a stick on tape that they applied to the TE of the blade for tracking. It looked like it increased the thickness of the TE in that area similar to if you were to bend the tab up. I tried this with Gorilla tape and it did work. I stuck a 1/4x6 inch on the TE or the suspect blade and the stick shake went away. it was temporary fix to see what what the TE needed to be bent. Be aware that this also can throw the dynamic balance out a little bit. again this was only a temporary fix test.

Doug
Awesome info Doug! FYI Doug is the original person to install a turbine in the Helicycle and also the redesigner of the AW95. He is an Icon in the Experimental Heli World.
 
I am have a real problem with getting my Mosquito XEL MR to track smoothly. I do not have access to any track and balance equipment so I am trying things the old way. I have the MR blade pitch links set up for the correct negative angle per the manual. I use a digital level with reading to 0.1 degree. Then I used reflective tape on the blade ends and hovered so a helper with a bright light could see the tip path. I also have flown it and adjusted the PCL until it was as smooth as I could get it. It is pretty smooth in hover but has a real vertical bounce in forward flight. The more collective the bigger the bounce. My blades do not have bendable trim tabs. I have set the sweep of each blade to 0 degrees, so both are neutral. I have not messed with adjusting the sweep angle. Any new ideas would be helpful.
Has anyone checked the coning angle and undersling on a Mosquito rotor head?
My calculations say that the coning angle is in the right ballpark, but the undersling should be roughly double what it is.
This might be the reason for the 2 per rev that a lot of XE owners are experiencing.
 
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