Gyroplane vs Trike

[smoline]

Who among the gyroplane drivers has also piloted a trike? Would you please provide pros and cons of each based on your experience and expertise?

 

[GyroRon]

I have flown in trikes twice, with one of those flights I did most of the piloting.

I would consider trikes compatible to gyros in only a few ways...

1. Both are quite compact and easily trailered, easily stored. A gyro takes up much less room to storage with just rotor blades vrs a wing overhead, but most trikes wings can be quickly folded up to take up about the same room as a gyro with the blades on. A trike with the wing folded up may be even easier to trailer as they don't have a tail behind the prop. I always thought the easy of trailering and storing a trike would be one of the biggest perks to a trike.

2. Both offer a similar view of the earth and sky and both offer the same " open cockpit " and out in the elements feel. Both fly at similar speeds.

Pro's of a trike is instruction may be easier to find, insurance may be easier to get and possibly more affordable, Trikes need less HP than a gyro, Some of the more basic trikes offer a jump seat behind the pilot and can fly two adults on just a Rotax 503 engine, where a 503 engine is usually marginal or just enough to fly a single seat gyro. And from my perspective, it was kind of a cool feeling controlling the trike by weight shift.

Pros of a gyro is controls are standard / airplane like.... Move the stick to the left you go to the left, pull the stick back nose goes up, push rudder left and you yaw to the left... So if you have previous airplane or helicopter flight experience learning to fly a gyro won't be like relearning everything backwards. Another pro to a gyro is the gyro will handle winds MUCH better, far more better actually. Gyro is also far more maneuverable, and more sporty to fly. Gyro is still king when it comes to having to make a emergency landing, as nothing else will land in as small of a space as a gyro ( other than a helicopter ). Gyros are also more attention grabbing if that makes a difference to you, everyone will want to come over and check out a gyro when you land somewhere and ask questions, where as a trike will garish less attention. And thinking of once you land.... a gyro once landed and blades tied up, can sit safely through some pretty strong winds without a care, where as if left parked somewhere and the wind picks up, a trike could be blown over if the winds are strong enough.

maybe one other thing a trike offers a gyro doesn't, is the ability to install a BRS parachute. gyros and parachutes don't work together, so in the case of some sort of control failure or airframe failure, having a parachute is a nice option and with a trike you could have that option in a gyro you don't.

 

[WaspAir]

As a matter of taste and philosophy, I prefer aerodynamic controls over weight shift, but that doesn't speak to the experience.

Abid may well be the highest time trike person on the forum (he has manufactured both if I recall accurately). I'd ask him.

 

[Doug Riley]

The more sophisticated trikes, per my trike friends, have wing-warping mechanisms that work as servos to assist with tipping the wing. Thsi sin't really aerodynamic control in the fixed-wing sense; more like power steering. This jibes with my brief experience in taking the controls of a trike -- the pressures were FAR less than I expected, given that I was weight-shifting a big 2-place trike.

Of course, the control motions of a trike bar match those of the old Bensen overhead stick -- the system that I learned on and don't mind. When you roll the bar clockwise, the trike cart banks clockwise.

Trike nosewheel steering is typically the same as an early Bensen, too: same sense of motion as bicycle handlebars, so push right to turn left. This takes some getting used to.

A trike uses wing-thrust vectoring to control pitch and yaw, just as a teeter-hinge gyro does. This means that you have no pitch or roll control during zero-G events. So, yup, a trike can PPO if it has a high thrustline (which they generally appear to have). It has happened, and there is (or was) an online video showing one such crash. Pretty horrific.

The biggest drawback of trikes compared to gyros, IMHO, is that trikes are 2-axis aircraft. They have no yaw control, which makes crosswind ops difficult at best.

The biggest draw, for me, would be the low power setting, peaceful flight that's possible in a trike. My trike friend called it "boating." Flight in an open gyro tends to be all adrenaline, all the time.

 

[ultracruiser41]

High winds….. Trikes not fun
High winds….. gyros fun

 

[ArnaudHP]

Crosswinds.....trikes not fun

 

[wolfy]

I also have a lot of trike time from my hang gliding days where I was also a tug pilot (trike). I no longer enjoy trike flying and to add whats already been said, on anything other than smooth air a trike is very physical to fly, and after even an hour of rough weather your arms and shoulders get very tired, where as any aerodynamic controlled machine is pretty much flying with your finger tips.

wolfy

 

[vkmaynard]

Get a ride in both. Different missions.

Weight shift is fun and interesting but not wind tolerant.

I like both but find the gyro to be flyable more often. Plus you can share a hangar with a lot of gyros. 8 gyros vs 3 trikes.

Victor

 

[Abid]

Who among the gyroplane drivers has also piloted a trike? Would you please provide pros and cons of each based on your experience and expertise?

I flew and still fly trikes. Co-designed 3 of them including the Revo. I fly light airplanes, trikes and gyroplanes and have produced all 3 types as well.

It is very different. Trikes are way more physically demanding to fly and mid day flying requires you have a stomach that can handle it. They are a dream to fly in smooth calm mornings and evenings. But anything else is more work than flying an airplane or a gyro.
Gyroplanes will handle wind and windshear and vertical shear and thermals much easier than trikes or light airplanes will. Trikes will be the most demanding. Trikes will in general takeoff in a shorter runway length given the same power and weight on the machine. They will climb a bit better as well.

Instruction availability is about the same as gyroplanes but I have to say, the instructors at this point are probably usually better overall than the state of instruction is for gyroplanes in the US still. I would say in instruction/instructors trikes are probably a dozen years ahead of gyroplanes.
Trikes are no faster than gyroplanes in general. The fastest trike in the world was a company in the UK called P&M Aviation which sadly went bankrupt a few years back and Dr. Bill Brooks creations went to India being produced now by a company run by Javad Hassan.
Crosswinds in trikes are fine but you land crabbed. They are engineered to handle it. You better keep that nose wheel up while it straightens out or you can flip but then you didn't know how to land. No rudder so no cross control possible. Well at high speeds I could use the front wheel as sort of a rudder and if we played with roll/yaw coupling connection it was possible to tune a wing for an advanced pilot to even turn/roll the trike with just using the feet. Anyway, that was just stuff not for general public release. We made that wing so light handling that most people would over control the crap out of it and kill themselves. It is simply changing airfoil along the span and allowing upper and lower surfaces to separate during roll

Airborne Australia was one of the largest trike companies in the world and has just shut operations for trikes in Sydney sadly.

Air Creation France still continues even though one of the main guys Gilles retired. The second owner still runs the show.
In the US my old company Evolution Trikes pretty much leads in sales and training in the US. Now they have these open huge powered parachute looking trike model called Revolt. Realistically cruise speeds are 45 to 70 mph. No more in that model.

They are simple but their fame to be portable is easily matched and even beaten by the gyroplane. Even some airplanes like the KitFox or Avid Flyer or one I just did will fold wings in 10 minutes by a single person.

Bottom line anyone above 55 years of age can fly trikes only in morning and calm evenings. It becomes a lot more physical any other time. They say real men fly trikes. There is some truth to that.

 

[Resasi]

Have flown in one once. Regretfully it did not excite or leave me with a desire to try it again, unusual as I am generally up for most forms for getting airborne. Trikes and balloons.

The balloon ride I went on was in quite still conditions. We went up quite high stayed pretty much in the same spot for a while, then on the descent after a while, gave us all some excitement by barely missing a grove of trees, just clearing a barbed wire fence...the basket that is, the balloon section did not, and tipping on its side and throwing us all out into a field liberally covered in cow pats. Left the passengers pretty unimpressed, and my sports jacket right shoulder sporting distinctly country style bovine adornment.

Real men can keep their Trikes, us softies...well we just love our gyros.

 

[wolfy]

Airborne Australia was one of the largest trike companies in the world and has just shut operations for trikes in Sydney sadly.

Wow abid I didn't know airborne shut down trikes, (they are in Newcastle by the way, a city north of Sydney). That is a shame, thats the only trikes that I have flown. Have you ever flown hanggliders?

And to add further, without aerodynamic control in a trike in very rough air (the best for hanggliding) you are in part a passenger sometimes, you could have all your strenght to try to roll the aircraft and just get surfed the way the air says so. They do handle a lot rougher air than most people rialise but fun it aint.

wolfy

 

[smoline]

Friends, you have provided VERY helpful and candid input, enabling this 67-year-old retired Marine to make a quality informed decision. It's gyroplane for me! Many, many thanks.

 

[StanFoster]

I have a trike pilot that lives near me, and he is a very avid trike pilot. He was always bothered in my opinion by my gyro flying...and wanted to demonstrate to me the advantages that a trike has over a gyro. He had never and still has never flown a gyro....From the ground...observing the effort they use to get that thing down wasn't too impressive to me....but I went for a ride. I realize the bar is moved opposite of what I had muscle memory for, so I wasn't even interested in reprogramming my reflexes. I just wanted a short ride.

My only impression I had was that it had a good climb rate for the power it had. Other than that...I wouldn't fly one if it were given to me....if I had to fly it. Just not interested at all. He still thinks they are better, but it's funny I would fly to their fly-ins on windy days when I was the only one to fly in....they drove in. It's like they had a cult like belief that trikes are simply better to fly.

Not for me...but who am I....I no longer fly.

 

[wolfy]

Friends, you have provided VERY helpful and candid input, enabling this 67-year-old retired Marine to make a quality informed decision. It's gyroplane for me! Many, many thanks.

Good choice mate gyro's take a lot to beat.

wolfy

 

[Mayfield]

Friends, you have provided VERY helpful and candid input, enabling this 67-year-old retired Marine to make a quality informed decision. It's gyroplane for me! Many, many thanks.

Semper Fi

 

[WaspAir]

Semper Fly?

 

[Abid]

Wow abid I didn't know airborne shut down trikes, (they are in Newcastle by the way, a city north of Sydney). That is a shame, thats the only trikes that I have flown. Have you ever flown hanggliders?

And to add further, without aerodynamic control in a trike in very rough air (the best for hanggliding) you are in part a passenger sometimes, you could have all your strenght to try to roll the aircraft and just get surfed the way the air says so. They do handle a lot rougher air than most people rialise but fun it aint.

wolfy

Hi Wolfy
No I never did fly hang gliders but should have when I started flying 21 years ago when my landing gear was better. Now I think my legs won’t make that great a landing gear.
Yes the trikes can handle more winds than people realize. I have flown in some nasty stuff and let the trike sort it out and it always does but it is not fun exactly. Gyroplanes eat it up and have a lot more control authority. Even light airplanes fall short on this compared to gyroplanes.

 

[Abid]

Friends, you have provided VERY helpful and candid input, enabling this 67-year-old retired Marine to make a quality informed decision. It's gyroplane for me! Many, many thanks.

Ah at your age if you don’t already fly trikes I would say don’t start. You would be getting up at 5:30 am just to enjoy flying while in a gyro you could do it at 10 am after training and a little experience.

 

[Mayfield]

Semper Fly?

Argh!

 

[WaspAir]

Ah at your age if you don’t already fly trikes I would say don’t start. You would be getting up at 5:30 am just to enjoy flying while in a gyro you could do it at 10 am after training and a little experience.

Obviously, you're not a balloonist! Get up in the wee hours, launch at dawn; down, packed up, and sipping champagne by 9:00 (illegal to fly for the next 8 hours).