Gyroplane Lands on Capital Hill Lawn?

[Doug Riley]

The Wacko-Factor is an unfortunate aspect of our community. The very word "gyrocopter" brings to mind some eccentric shallow-ender in a junkyard-dog contraption. We ought to bury this word and dance on its grave.

I fear that the "gyrocopter Wacko-Factor" will result in Doug's message being lost amid the snickers and/or the security paranoia.

That's too bad, as the problem of election-money-as-graft is serious, and obvious to everyone except the people actually participating in it. It's something that right and left can agree upon.

 

[barnstorm2]

The Wacko-Factor is an unfortunate aspect of our community. The very word "gyrocopter" brings to mind some eccentric shallow-ender in a junkyard-dog contraption. We ought to bury this word and dance on its grave.

I fear that the "gyrocopter Wacko-Factor" will result in Doug's message being lost amid the snickers and/or the security paranoia.

That's too bad, as the problem of election-money-as-graft is serious, and obvious to everyone except the people actually participating in it. It's something that right and left can agree upon.

Very, very well said.

.

 

[Udi]

...That's too bad, as the problem of election-money-as-graft is serious, and obvious to everyone except the people actually participating in it. It's something that right and left can agree upon.

Actually, it is particularly obvious to the people who participate in it Doug... they just enjoy their yachts, private jets and fat bank accounts too much to do anything to stop it...

 

[PW_Plack]

The very word "gyrocopter" brings to mind some eccentric shallow-ender in a junkyard-dog contraption. We ought to bury this word and dance on its grave.

And what - move on and quickly attach the same baggage to another word? If all the media coverage Doug generated had instead used "gyroplane," all we'd have accomplished would be the need for a second grave in which to bury that word, too.

The gyrocopter safety issues won't be solved semantically. For whatever reason open-frame, single-seat gyros attract a disproportionate share of Darwin-award candidates. It hurts our ability to buy insurance, makes airport managers wary when they see us coming, and it limits our numbers when risk-averse people are scared away. But it doesn't limit any individual's ability to fly his own machine in a safe manner.

When I look across the Atlantic, the countries in which gyros are making the most progress against the stereotype universally call these craft by their ICAO-standard designator, "gyrocopter." So it's not the word.

 

[cbonnerup]

Semantics of Safety, and not just single-seat.
Paul is spot on.
Both factory-assembled Magni's and Autogyro's and garage built-assembled from plans Parsons, or KB-2, Hornet, or... are FAA 'experimental' in the good ole' USA.
Perhaps the ASTM Standard documented in the build docs would please the public, the FAA, and the safety of the sport in general?

Who wants to do a 3g AUW droptest on their Hornet built with with cosmetic aluminum and grade 2 bolts? An 'experimenter' acquaintance just down the road from me had a good idea to 'upgrade' his Scorpion with parts from Agri Supply and field welding from a 'cracker box'; was not pretty when the tail rotor departed and flew 2" past his head.

Stupid is as Stupid does I suppose, but we have a government and public looking over our shoulder.

Eddie, that's what could hurt our sport.

Chris B.

 

[M._Springer]

I am like Eddie in post 184 . My choice in gyros is and has always been open frame

I am like Eddie in post 184 . My choice in gyros is and has always been open frame

single seat machine and it always will be. I would go as far as to say that I wouldn't trade my Bensen straight across for any of the pretty colored two place , mostly fully enclosed machines with tiny rudders coming on the market today.

They might fly nice when all is going ok but let the engine quit and if the wind is blowing a bit and the pilot has to make a turn to land he will learn what it is like to ride a spinning ,out of control gyro down to the ground as a passenger.

I have been there ,done that and have written about it before. My gyro had a semi encloure on it, not a full enclosure.

The 12 mph wind was a tail wind when the engine quit. All was well until I made a right turn to head into the wind to land. The wind hit the side of the semi-enclosure and started my gyro turning to the right. Pushing left rudder made no difference at all. It kept right on turning. I was carryring 10 miles per hr. extra airspeed so I would have good solid speed to flare for the landing.

When low enough I flared and the gyro landed with the wind 90 degrees to the direction the nose was pointed at touch down. The wind pushing my gyro side ways was disasterous to my machine.

I would really hate to be in one of the new fully enclosed or even seim-enclosed new gyros dead stick and a bit of wind blowing.

Back in the 70's Martin Hollman had a spinning down to the ground ride with his two place Sportster, I believe that is the name of his gyro, when he put doors on it fully enclosing the gyro. That happened just a few miles east of Fremont airport in Ca. His ride make the newspapers.
Marion

PS Paul, I don't think I am a Darwin award candidate because I prefer open frame single seat gyros.
MS

 

[Tina]

PS Paul, I don't think I am a Darwin award candidate because I prefer open frame single seat gyros.
MS

I too can't believe you wrote that Paul. I knew there was a reason I did not like you from the start, your full of yourself!

 

[leatherneck]

Be afraid of Hussain O. Paul can't shut your power plants down. Sayin

 

[PW_Plack]

PS Paul, I don't think I am a Darwin award candidate because I prefer open frame, single seat gyros. MS

Nor do I, Marion, and it's not what I said. It's what I prefer to fly, too. But it seems most of the stupid pilot tricks we see and read about happen in them. Like I said, it doesn't mean we can't be safe in single-place machines.

 

[bosca]

And you too Tina as you have an inability to interpret a rational comment.
Off your high horse Miss.
Kym.

 

[JAL]

Nor do I, Marion, and it's not what I said. It's what I prefer to fly, too. But it seems most of the stupid pilot tricks we see and read about happen in them. Like I said, it doesn't mean we can't be safe in single-place machines.

I think the amount of idiot things you see people do in the new generation gyros it wont be long until they catch up.

I just don't understand all the hand wringing about gyros.

They are not a safe aircraft and never will be so lets just accept that. Its no different to motorbike riding in terms of safety and you don't see motor cyclists lamenting how unsafe bikes are.

The vast majority of accidents whether they be single seat home-built or $250,000 deluxe 2 seater is the fault of the pilot. Seeing we cant select the pilots the accident rate will not improve.

The best thing to focus on yourself as an individual and how you can continue to become a better pilot. The real trick is to be honest to yourself.

With the single seat homebuilt it may well attract a certain personality type that wont think critically, especially about flying skills and may not even get instruction but that's not something you can do anything about. I really don't see it being a big problem as the majority of gyro pilots aren't like this and will not be looking to pick up a Darwin award anytime soon.

It could be even a bigger problem for the expensive machines. These gyros would attract people who have made lots of money made from taking risks far greater than most people would ever consider. While they may not necessarily fly like idiots and would respect flying and get proper instruction etc (and will not try and cut corners to save money) they have always backed themselves which results in them forming strong opinions about their own judgement and often cant recognize they are deficient in some areas and sometimes cant be told by someone else either.

 

[earthbnd misfit]

He's lucky that they didn't have a surface to air missile mounted somewhere on standby, and shot him down.
JD

 

[MadMuz]

I think the amount of idiot things you see people do in the new generation gyros it wont be long until they catch up.



They are not a safe aircraft and never will be so lets just accept that. Its no different to motorbike riding in terms of safety and you don't see motor cyclists lamenting how unsafe bikes are.



.

I partially agree mate, but not that gyros are unsafe machines.... I know exactly what you mean tho.... I think of it more that gyros are very safe machines in experienced hands.... however they can bite the unwary and usually bite really hard (unforgiving) To me, a gyro is very similar to a motorbike... on a bike, if you want to turn left.... don't lean right.... you will fall off.... same with a gyro... there is things you don't do, like anything negative G, because it will bite.... not so much dangerous... but known and predictable outcomes....

On the bit about usually stunts and odd happenings occur with basic open frame over the factory machines... to me, that is because of financial risk? If someone spends $100K on the latest gyro, they will be less likely to put it in a situation where it will be damaged or confiscated.... whereas an old basic machine worth $2K might be prepared to be forfeited by its owner to make a statement?

BTW, did Doug get his machine back or was it confiscated? :noidea:

 

[Tina]

And you too Tina as you have an inability to interpret a rational comment.
Off your high horse Miss.
Kym.

WOW now I remember why I don't like going on this forum any longer! People like you! My comment was for Paul not you! I would think Paul can stick up for himself and didn't need others to do it for him.

 

[Rick Martin]

You DID misinterpret Paul's statement. Does this mean you really do like Paul?

 

[Abid]

single seat machine and it always will be. I would go as far as to say that I wouldn't trade my Bensen straight across for any of the pretty colored two place , mostly fully enclosed machines with tiny rudders coming on the market today.

They might fly nice when all is going ok but let the engine quit and if the wind is blowing a bit and the pilot has to make a turn to land he will learn what it is like to ride a spinning ,out of control gyro down to the ground as a passenger.
MS

My goodness. I was just going to come on and say that I for one applaud this gentleman for getting attention to an issue which amounts to legalized bribes in the U.S. political system but somehow even that changes into put down downs and denigration of a full ceratain branch of design and an elevation of a design type which by stats comes out much worse and has had scathing put down report by NTSB in the late 90's. But heck the facts be dammed. What does NTSB know about finding trends in accidents. It's simply wrong to just point the finger at a whole style and say they are all like that. I try and do my best not to generalize statements like this for all open frame gyroplanes. Some are safe and some not imo and a Bensen could benefit from some changes imo. Using it in modified as a basis of safety yardstick is in IMO just asking for trouble.

Marion: perhaps you should try doing some sideways flying for a few hours in our gyroplanes before making an opinion. Wouldn't that make a lot more sense?

 

[barnstorm2]

I fly a Gyrocopter,always have always will. The airplanes that were flown into the twin

towers,what make and model were they,have the builders gone out of business? I can't

recall what they were! so how is this going to hurt our sport,geez,really?



Best regards,eddie.....

Er...

Have you ever heard of the TSA? Patriot Act? Airport mandated security, fences, photo restrictions, CFI paperwork, training and expenses on new security rules, TFR's, No fly zones, and, and, and, and........


.

 

[M._Springer]

I like Paul , consider him a friend and I understood his statement.

I like Paul , consider him a friend and I understood his statement.

I also understand that the light frisky gyro ( features that I love about it) beg for the gyro to be flown " all out" and some guys will over-do their ability, or their self percieved ability, and end up as statistics. I just stated that I am not a Darwin award candidate. I never overstep my flying abiliity in gyros.

One Darwin award candidate showed his ignorance at a fly-in a few years back when he tried to copy Brock's signature landing sequence where after landing Brock would while still seated in the gyro, back the gyro up with engine running and blades up to speed and back onto the taxi way before shutting the gyro down. The young hot-shot stuck a blade in the ground trying to emulate Brock. He would be a candidate for the Darwin award.

Now can we get back on track here? Re Mr. Hughes delivering the mail, I give him a thumbs up. I admire anyone who has the intestional fortitude to stand up for his beliefs and Mr. Hughes did!
Marion

 

[bosca]

Miss Priss, You made your personal opinions of Paul very public which was irrelevant to his post.
Paul is a good man, maybe you need a personality shift.
Kym

 

[bosca]

Oh No Tina, I sure Rick is correct.
Your in Love, Woopide Doo.
Kym.