Gyro Warning System

Resasi

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The “inevitable” “behind the curve” warning as you flare is no different to the stall warning on most aircraft. In fact I’ve found it a good indicator that I’m not landing too fast. If I start to flare and don’t get that message I know something’s wrong. Also the GWS includes a volume controller (you can’t turn it down below a certain level) and a push button to stop the message for a set time period (actually at 20 seconds but adjustable).
Mike as you say the audible stall say on a C 150 was as a good indication and not a distraction.

One knew that in the air at any alt it was warning of an impending stall, that could be dangerous,, however during a landing it was a useful indication that touchdown had occurred at a minimum airspeed and was good.

The push button silencing is a good idea for those who find it a distraction for landing, but as you said it the alarm can be used un-silenced, as a landing aid.

All in all an impressive step forward in promoting gyro operational safety.
 

fara

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Hi Mike:
I hope that the GWS will have a black box like capability to record the following
1) Rotor RPM
2) Airspeed
3) Altitude
4) G-force
5) Warnings given to pilot
6) Engine RPM would be nice if possible
7) Fireproofing of recorded data element

These should be set to record probably once every 0.5 seconds. 20 minutes of recording is plenty. The low G bunting risk warning is a must have.
 

Mike G

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Fara

Thanks for your interest. When I've managed to get a vaccination and can travel to the USA, I'll plan a visit to Florida, I probably need to update you on the latest PB4 features and will bring a prototype GWS for testing.

At the moment the GWS does all you ask up to number 6. You can see from the graph the different outputs, the height is barely visible because in that particular test I never took off.
We are looking at adding engine rpm and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

Fireproofing is something that we're looking at but needs to be discussed with those manufacturers who we will be working with to see how much they want to do. Since they have to find somewhere to fit this black box they may have better solutions than us.
As a point of interest does anybody have an idea of which zone of a gyro is the least likely to be affected by a crash and fire?

The GWS also has a set of contacts for a door/canopy lock alarm.

We hope to work with interested manufacturers and this may produce other requirements.

Mike G
 

fara

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Fara

Thanks for your interest. When I've managed to get a vaccination and can travel to the USA, I'll plan a visit to Florida, I probably need to update you on the latest PB4 features and will bring a prototype GWS for testing.

At the moment the GWS does all you ask up to number 6. You can see from the graph the different outputs, the height is barely visible because in that particular test I never took off.
We are looking at adding engine rpm and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

Fireproofing is something that we're looking at but needs to be discussed with those manufacturers who we will be working with to see how much they want to do. Since they have to find somewhere to fit this black box they may have better solutions than us.
As a point of interest does anybody have an idea of which zone of a gyro is the least likely to be affected by a crash and fire?

The GWS also has a set of contacts for a door/canopy lock alarm.

We hope to work with interested manufacturers and this may produce other requirements.

Mike G

Hi Mike
I think the best place to mount would be between front and back seat under or above the keel tube in a stainless steel box
 

Mike G

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Progress has been slow on the GWS due to Covid and other things. I finally installed the first prototype Mk1.2 version of the GWS and went flying.

This new version now includes OAT compensation to go with altitude compensation so that the GWS automatically corrects the alarm parameters for density altitude. It also now logs engine speed and has an optional canopy/door lock switch warning.

It has the hardware for a CAN bus system and the idea is to connect the GWS to a small data logger that can be housed in a fireproof box elsewhere on the gyro. Our thinking here is that putting the current GWS in a fireproof enclosure would be expensive, large and heavy and make installation even more difficult. A small fireproof data logger could be put somewhere where the risk of being in the centre of any post-crash fire was reduced, if such a place exists. It could also be linked to other devices on board such as GPS, so that after a crash we would have the maximum of data to review to analyse what went wrong.

My main interest now is to improve the bunting warning and we're working on a new algorithm looking at the G level and rotor rpm decay rate to better predict an approaching bunt scenario without giving too many false alarms. Here is a video of a quick circuit due to low cloud base just to test the system and audio. I seem to have some audio distortion, not sure if that's the GWS or the cheap Go Pro I'm using.


You can see my smartphone acting as a G meter in the middle of the panel.



You can also see quite a lot of vibration because we've fitted a very large diameter rotor for the future Hi speed flapping warning and this only turns at about 300 rpm giving a 2/rev which is very close to a 9 hz natural frequency in the tail, so literally the tail wagging the dog.

Mike G
 

gyrojockey

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Progress has been slow on the GWS due to Covid and other things. I finally installed the first prototype Mk1.2 version of the GWS and went flying.

This new version now includes OAT compensation to go with altitude compensation so that the GWS automatically corrects the alarm parameters for density altitude. It also now logs engine speed and has an optional canopy/door lock switch warning.

It has the hardware for a CAN bus system and the idea is to connect the GWS to a small data logger that can be housed in a fireproof box elsewhere on the gyro. Our thinking here is that putting the current GWS in a fireproof enclosure would be expensive, large and heavy and make installation even more difficult. A small fireproof data logger could be put somewhere where the risk of being in the centre of any post-crash fire was reduced, if such a place exists. It could also be linked to other devices on board such as GPS, so that after a crash we would have the maximum of data to review to analyse what went wrong.

My main interest now is to improve the bunting warning and we're working on a new algorithm looking at the G level and rotor rpm decay rate to better predict an approaching bunt scenario without giving too many false alarms. Here is a video of a quick circuit due to low cloud base just to test the system and audio. I seem to have some audio distortion, not sure if that's the GWS or the cheap Go Pro I'm using.


You can see my smartphone acting as a G meter in the middle of the panel.



You can also see quite a lot of vibration because we've fitted a very large diameter rotor for the future Hi speed flapping warning and this only turns at about 300 rpm giving a 2/rev which is very close to a 9 hz natural frequency in the tail, so literally the tail wagging the dog.

Mike G
Keep at it @Mike G
 

Mike G

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Thanks to all who have offered encouragement.


Continuing the discussion from the G-PALT accident thread, here is a GWS recording of a typical “forward stick” type take off. In fact it’s the second TO in the first video of this thread.

What you can see is that at 28.2 seconds the pre-rotator is released at a Rrpm (red line) of 205 rpm, the throttle is fully opened (WOT) and the airspeed (yellow line) increases.

3 seconds later the first pre-alarm (red triangle on line 3 of the right hand Y axis) tells the pilot in his intercom that there is a flapping risk, this same message continues (red triangle on line 1 of the right hand Y axis) but is caused by a different algorithm.

1 second later the major alarm (red triangle on line 2 of the right hand Y axis) tells the pilot he’s about to have an accident.

You can see from the flapping angle (the blue line) that the angle is still quite acceptable at about 2 degrees (read off the right hand Y axis scale), but from the data and calculations I can assure you that if you pulled the stick back after the major warning this rotor would go almost instantaneously to over 8° (max flapping angle for this rotor) and it would very difficult, if not impossible, to hold the stick.
8A78.tmp.png
This is what the GWS recording of the G-PALT accident would look like had one been fitted except that there wouldn't be a flapping angle line and all the lines would drop to zero at about 33 seconds as he pulled the stick back and flapped the rotor. If the pilot couldn’t remember what happened, or worse didn’t survive, we wouldn’t have to try to guess the cause we would simply know.

The question that I now ask myself is “upon hearing the warning, would the pilot make the appropriate correction??”

The GWS allows the owner to record what ever message he wants for each of the alarms, the current alarms are the ones I chose for myself. An instructor could decide to record the corrective actions such as “stick forwards, close throttle, abort…..”.

Comments welcome.

Mike G
 

Resasi

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That’s pretty much what I was taught when encountering blade flap/sailing during take off.

The knocking and stick jerking from side to side builds incredibly rapidly to uncontrollable...if not immediately, if too high a forward speed has been achieved without the appropriate build up of RRPM to match.
 

fara

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Thanks to all who have offered encouragement.


Continuing the discussion from the G-PALT accident thread, here is a GWS recording of a typical “forward stick” type take off. In fact it’s the second TO in the first video of this thread.

What you can see is that at 28.2 seconds the pre-rotator is released at a Rrpm (red line) of 205 rpm, the throttle is fully opened (WOT) and the airspeed (yellow line) increases.

3 seconds later the first pre-alarm (red triangle on line 3 of the right hand Y axis) tells the pilot in his intercom that there is a flapping risk, this same message continues (red triangle on line 1 of the right hand Y axis) but is caused by a different algorithm.

1 second later the major alarm (red triangle on line 2 of the right hand Y axis) tells the pilot he’s about to have an accident.

You can see from the flapping angle (the blue line) that the angle is still quite acceptable at about 2 degrees (read off the right hand Y axis scale), but from the data and calculations I can assure you that if you pulled the stick back after the major warning this rotor would go almost instantaneously to over 8° (max flapping angle for this rotor) and it would very difficult, if not impossible, to hold the stick.
View attachment 1153101
This is what the GWS recording of the G-PALT accident would look like had one been fitted except that there wouldn't be a flapping angle line and all the lines would drop to zero at about 33 seconds as he pulled the stick back and flapped the rotor. If the pilot couldn’t remember what happened, or worse didn’t survive, we wouldn’t have to try to guess the cause we would simply know.

The question that I now ask myself is “upon hearing the warning, would the pilot make the appropriate correction??”

The GWS allows the owner to record what ever message he wants for each of the alarms, the current alarms are the ones I chose for myself. An instructor could decide to record the corrective actions such as “stick forwards, close throttle, abort…..”.

Comments welcome.

Mike G

I think the instructor can record a message like this
You are an idiot and needed more training but you are too cheap and now you are about to pay for it.

May be that's too long and may be too politically incorrect for US sensibilities? Well when this ever happens to me, you guys have my permission to call me a dummy.
 

Vance

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I think the instructor can record a message like this
You are an idiot and needed more training but you are too cheap and now you are about to pay for it.

May be that's too long and may be too politically incorrect for US sensibilities? Well when this ever happens to me, you guys have my permission to call me a dummy.
None of my clients who made this mistake were idiots and none of them were too cheap to get enough training.

For a high time fixed wing pilot centering the controls and opening the throttle for takeoff is a hard habit to lose.

We all make mistakes; some are more expensive than others.

I feel Mike's gyro warning system will likely save someone a lot of money one day.

Most pilots I know are not idiots and Mike's warning system likely has value for them anyway.
 

fara

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None of my clients who made this mistake were idiots and none of them were too cheap to get enough training.

For a high time fixed wing pilot centering the controls and opening the throttle for takeoff is a hard habit to lose.

We all make mistakes; some are more expensive than others.

I feel Mike's gyro warning system will likely save someone a lot of money one day.

Most pilots I know are not idiots and Mike's warning system likely has value for them anyway.

Vance. Like I said if I make a mistake such as this you are welcome to call that an idiotic action on my part. I can handle it. You know why because that exactly means I was not ready and needed more practice with an instructor. I'll take that. Certain things need to get to the point of being done without processing deliberately through our heads. It needs to get to that point. We will undoubtedly run into situations where we will have to act quickly, a gust of wind on landing, a side gust on takeoff, anything like that. Things have to get to the point of internalization.

That does not mean I am an idiot but I certainly acted like one in that instance. We all have blonde moments yes but they "are" blond moments. Doesn't make us blonds ... see the difference. I have had a couple of those moments myself in aviation. Thankfully nothing too bad. I am humble and fly safer due to those moments and mistakes. Aviation does not give us too many chances to have these moments and keep getting away with it. Its the ultimate personal responsibility.

You should try trikes sometimes. Every sense of control is opposite. On the ground and in the air. Throttle is on right (edit) foot. Brake on left (edit) foot. Pushing out makes you go up and slow down. Pulling in makes you dive and speed up. Control pulled right makes you go left and pulled left makes you roll right. I have trained 52 airplane pilots to fly trikes. I have not let one go till I was sure they were over their reversals from airplanes. None of them have had that accident. I have over 3500 hours in trikes. Flying airplanes and gyroplanes is completely opposite in every sense of the word for my 3500 hours of muscle memory. I am not about to use that as an excuse.
 
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fara

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Gee why left foot throttle, all my trike time (tug pilot, ex hangglider) is in airborne trikes they all have right foot throttle.

wolfy
Yup just typed wrong.
 

Mike G

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The GWS has recently made it's first real live potential save.
I was testing something with two PB4s at the same time and just as I left the ground I saw on my tablet (strapped to my leg) that the wi-fi that links the PB4 to the tablet had disconnected and reconnected to the wrong PB4. So I started to fumble about with the touch screen trying to reconnect when a voice over the intercom said "behind the curve". I looked up and there I was with full power, the nose pointing to the sky, the airspeed falling and me at 100 feet over the houses at the end of the runway.
As fara said one of those blond moments that can happen to any of us.
I'd like to think that I would have caught it anyway but who knows.
Mike G
 

fara

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The GWS has recently made it's first real live potential save.
I was testing something with two PB4s at the same time and just as I left the ground I saw on my tablet (strapped to my leg) that the wi-fi that links the PB4 to the tablet had disconnected and reconnected to the wrong PB4. So I started to fumble about with the touch screen trying to reconnect when a voice over the intercom said "behind the curve". I looked up and there I was with full power, the nose pointing to the sky, the airspeed falling and me at 100 feet over the houses at the end of the runway.
As fara said one of those blond moments that can happen to any of us.
I'd like to think that I would have caught it anyway but who knows.
Mike G

Someone like you probably would have managed but a newer pilot or a pilot transitioning in this situation could have a bad reaction. It takes only a couple of seconds for things to go from so so to oh s**t.
On another note once we go grey, blond moments change to silver ones.
I know it seems like you won't be able to travel in October to the US due to restrictions ... and I can see why. Florida is "the epicenter" of new Covid 19 infections here right now. But hope we can do something a couple of months down the road. May be I can start to design somethings in advance to install GWS. Next month we also start working on composite tooling for the side by side.
 

All_In

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...
I know it seems like you won't be able to travel in October to the US due to restrictions ... But hope we can do something a couple of months down the road.
I'm sorry about the travel but also glad. In a couple of months, Ron and I will be able to attend.
 

Mike G

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Fara
It's really not looking good for October. I'm talking to Mark Burton (Smart Avionics) about sending you an earlier prototype that I no longer use. Its the same size enclosure as the latest but with slightly different connections. Mark is looking into putting as much of the latest software on it as possible. That will allow you to find somewhere to put it and even start some of the calibration flights.

John (All In)
What do you wish to attend, a rotor track and balance training or something to do with the GWS??

Mike
 

All_In

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Hi Mike
I do need to learn how to rotor track and balance blades training the most.
But I wish to learn all about GWS to. I think it has real potential.
 
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