gyro recommendations for HKS 700E engine?

[mvadney]

I had a Sport Copter Vortex with a 700e. It flew fine except for high density altitude days. Then it was a dog. I had the 3.47 ratio gear box and not a big enough prop for that ratio. I probably lost 30-40 lbs of thrust on that setup. It was very quiet and fuel efficient. This last year I have been upgrading to a used Rotax 912 ULS. Hopefully the 500 hour engine is fine. It should be fun to fly with that much power as the HKS 700e really wasn't the best fit. John Anderson has a 700e on an ultralight and it scoots great!.
If I was looking for an affordable engine choice now I would go with the Yamaha 3-cyl.

Good luck.

 

[13brv3]

I had a Sport Copter Vortex with a 700e. It flew fine except for high density altitude days. Then it was a dog.

Thanks for the comments. Always good to hear from a first hand source of info. I bought the engine for a fixed wing project that I decided not to pursue, so it was worth considering whether I could use it for a gyro. I'm convinced I wouldn't be satisfied with the power (or lack thereof), so I'll end up selling the engine and making new plans. Really hard to beat a 912, and there are some good deals occasionally. There are also new engines every week it seems for other applications that can be converted. I'll hold off on finding a new engine until I decide what gyro I'll build. I'd love an M912 Vortex, but can't come close to justifying the price. I still like the Little Wing LW3 as well, but will more likely end up with a single place Dominator.

Cheers,
Rusty

 

[k413]

The Carlinator was/is a single seater, drop keel gyroplane designed by Carl Schneider. The name came from the fact that he and Ernie Boyette were working on a drop keel design around the same time frame; Carl used a Dominator pod and tail on his gyro, so Carl and Dominator were put together. The first time I saw a Carlinator was at Shelbyville airport in IL. He had a 50 HP Hirth and a 72 inch, 3 bladed prop. He followed the Bensen method of training with his first gyrocopter and still flew with an overhead control stick. He had a farm in Iowa, and his fellow gyronaughts (if that is a word) from Iowa built their own version of Carlinators and did a lot of cross country flying. Joe Swanton has some great stories if you catch him at Mentone.

 

[Tyger]

He had a farm in Iowa, and his fellow gyronaughts (if that is a word) from Iowa built their own version of Carlinators and did a lot of cross country flying.

It's almost a good word, except: "naut" is from the greek word for ship (cf. "nautical", "astronaut"); but "naught" means "nothing"
"Carlinator" makes me think of something between George Carlin and Arnold Schwartzenegger, haha.

 

[j4flyer]

Carl had his that flew extremely well. Gary Brewer in Canton, ILL has a similar design that uses an HKS. Gary won best Gyro at Bensen days, Mentone, KBFF in Ca and one more in a year. He runs a stock HKS 700E.

 

[j4flyer]

Rusty my friend flew a Souza Bandit with an HKS engine without any problem. Jerry weighed in at 230 lbs. I have that airframe that used the HKS engine. If you want to talk about it my email is [email protected].
Bob Lewis

OK, so here's the post where I admit that I've been duped by marketing, and my own stubbornness. I decided to try to find comparisons between the HKS power, and the 503 and 582. Over the years I've always heard "weight of a 582 and power of a 503" when people spoke of testing the HKS.

I found a few threads with some various measurements from static thrust tests, or flight figures, which can never really be compared. The most interesting and irrefutable information I found comes from basic calculations. It seems that a 680 CC engine at 6200 RPM, without supercharging would be expected to make about 45 HP. That figure was quoted in a number of posts, and can be found by going to any of the generic HP calculators online. This actually does explain a lot, though it's sort of embarrassing to just figure this out now...

The HKS may still be a good choice for some fixed wing aircraft, but I officially agree that it's not going to be a good choice for a gyro. The good news is that I got a decent deal on the engine when I bought it, and it was fun to play with, but it looks like time for a Barnstormers ad. I'll move to the 912, or look into the many new and unproven conversions that are popping up everywhere.

Rusty

 

[13brv3]

Thanks for the comments Bob. I know there have been successes, but I've pretty much decided I'd rather have a 912UL. I was going to sell the HKS, but I just acquired a Dominator project, and I think I'll hang onto it while I look for a reasonable 912UL nearby. When I'm ready for an engine (many months from now since this isn't my current project) I'll either use the HKS, or sell it because I bought a 912UL.

 

[rwr]

Carlinator = a gyro with a low-thrustline and high efficiency in the configuration of something Carl Schneider might have designed.

 

[13brv3]

The Carlinator was mentioned as one of the more successful examples of HKS powered gyros. I understand it allowed the large prop that would be needed to make the most of the HKS.

I sold my HKS to a guy who lost an oil line in flight and toasted his engine. I managed to find a very good deal on a 912UL locally, and it's getting set up on my test stand now. I really need to finish my Onex before diving any further into the gyros again, but the eventual gyro will have 80 Austrian horses, not 60 of those smaller Japanese horses

Rusty

 

[rwr]

The Carlinator was mentioned as one of the more successful examples of HKS powered gyros. I understand it allowed the large prop that would be needed to make the most of the HKS.

I sold my HKS to a guy who lost an oil line in flight and toasted his engine. I managed to find a very good deal on a 912UL locally, and it's getting set up on my test stand now. I really need to finish my Onex before diving any further into the gyros again, but the eventual gyro will have 80 Austrian horses, not 60 of those smaller Japanese horses

Rusty

How much more does the 912 weigh than the HKS, ... installed weight? Those 80 Austrian horses might cause the gyro to weigh 70 pounds more than the gyro with 60 Japanese horses. 912 installed is around 195 pounds. HKS installed is around 125 pounds.

 

[13brv3]

How much more does the 912 weigh than the HKS, ... installed weight? Those 80 Austrian horses might cause the gyro to weigh 70 pounds more than the gyro with 60 Japanese horses. 912 installed is around 195 pounds. HKS installed is around 125 pounds.

I haven't weighed a complete installation of either. The biggest issue, and my joke about horse size is due to the rating of the HKS. It's long been understood that it's not really 60 HP. Run the numbers on any HP calculator, and it comes to around 46 HP. I actually got the 912 for less than I sold the HKS, so I'm sure it will be a good trade.