gyro recommendations for HKS 700E engine?

13brv3

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Update- See post 18 for the reason I decided not to pursue this. I can't believe it took this long for me to do a basic reality check. Just stubborn and gullible I guess :)


Greetings,

I'm mostly a experimental fixed wing guy, but I did "build" (if you can call it that) a single place Dominator long ago. I also have time in an RAF which also got me a sport gyroplane endorsement on my PPL. I was sort of burnt out on flying when I had the Dom, and only flew it a handful of hours before getting out of aviation completely for about 5 years.

Now that we're settled in east TN, I'm back in fixed wing again, and even added an A&P rating. I've always liked the HKS engine, but they were so expensive that I never bought one. About 6 months ago, I found one fairly close by that had low hours, and was a good deal, so I have it running on a test stand. The original plan was yet another fixed wing (RidgeRunner3), but I've become interested in gyros again. Around here, a gyro would represent a big step up in safety if you ever had to make an emergency landing, and it would be better for the local flying I'd do in a slow plane anyway. I'm trying to finish a Sonex Onex with a 912, so I'll have a plane already anyway.

So finally to the question, what would make a good gyro for the HKS 700E (60HP) engine? The first gyro I ever saw was a Sport Copter Vortex, and I think that would work pretty well. I like the semi-enclosure much better than being completely out in the breeze. My Dom had the pod and windscreen, but that was still pretty breezy. I didn't much care for the high seating and long spindly gear legs on the Dom, so I'd probably rather stick with something closer to the Vortex. I haven't been looking long, but it doesn't seem like the Vortex copters come up for sale too often. Any other suggestions?

Also, a bonus question. Are there any gyros flying around East TN?

Thanks,
Rusty
 
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XXavier

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Proper cooling of the HKS700 may be difficult to achieve in pusher configuration at the low airspeeds usual in gyros...
 

GyroRon

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you should come to the carolina barnstormers event next month. There will be a few sportcopters there as well
 

13brv3

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I just looked up the fly-in info, and it's not very likely I'll be able to attend that week. Looks like it's a spring and fall gathering, so maybe I'll have the Onex ready to fly over for the fall event.
 

Tyger

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If you like the Vortex, why not look into building a new one and putting your engine on it?
Any used one you might find is likely to have a working engine already.
 
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Tyger

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Well... you do get what you pay for. Definitely quality stuff.
If you can afford it, I'd say it's your best bet. It sounds like you have the skills/expertise to do a great build. So, value added!
DavePA11 recently sold his well-used Vortex... I think he got north of 50K for it. And I think he's now sort of regretting having sold it! ☺️
 
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Jazzenjohn

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I have been flying with the HKS-700e for quite a while. The gyros I'd recommend for it are the Hornet and the Gyrobee, after that, the 3DRV or Brock KB-3 with a raised seat. You want something very light. Aerodynamic is a plus too. The cooling isn't really much of an issue, just put a scoop on it. Use the biggest prop you can, at least 65". Only use the 2.58 gearbox unless you are prepared to build a lightweight Carlinator with a HUGE prop.
 

13brv3

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Thanks for the comments. I did a bit of searching on the models that I wasn't familiar with, and they all appear to be pretty basic machines. I suppose some sort of pod and windscreen can be added, but I'd probably prefer that it be designed that way, and tested by lots of people prior to me :)

Good to hear that cooling isn't an issue. I wasn't too concerned about it really, but I do have the 3.47 gear drive. I would expect that to be the more desirable ratio for a gyro, but only if you have room for the prop. I have a 66" Warp drive prop on it now, which isn't a bad choice, but I don't know if you could reasonably go much shorter.

I'll probably continue watching the various classified sites and get a feel for pricing. I'm still tempted by the Little Wing, but I'm trying to resist since there just aren't that many flying I don't think.

Thanks,
Rusty
 

rwr

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I have been flying with the HKS-700e for quite a while. The gyros I'd recommend for it are the Hornet and the Gyrobee, after that, the 3DRV or Brock KB-3 with a raised seat. You want something very light. Aerodynamic is a plus too. The cooling isn't really much of an issue, just put a scoop on it. Use the biggest prop you can, at least 65". Only use the 2.58 gearbox unless you are prepared to build a lightweight Carlinator with a HUGE prop.
What is a Carlinator?
 

Tyger

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The search function on this forum has been pretty much useless for some time. It actually seems to have become worse recently, if that's possible.
As you have discovered, one is often better off just using Google to find things in this forum.
 

Brian Jackson

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Please pardon my derailing this thread for a quick question, but what would it take to make the Search function work? If it requires more resources I'll gladly increase my membership contribution. Half of the value of this Forum is the archive. Most new members will be hungry for information and the search function is kind of an important tool.
 

XXavier

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Please pardon my derailing this thread for a quick question, but what would it take to make the Search function work? If it requires more resources I'll gladly increase my membership contribution. Half of the value of this Forum is the archive. Most new members will be hungry for information and the search function is kind of an important tool.

You're right. Without the search function, this forum is little more than a chat.
 

Tyger

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I think there is some kind of disconnect to old postings. For example, if I click on myself and ask to see my postings, it shows my last fifteen. If I click, "Show More", it shows them back to February of this year. So far, OK. But then, if I click on "View older results" it says "No results found".
This seems to be true for everyone. It is as if the forum software has no way to see things that are more than a few months old, even though they still exist and can often be found using Google, etc.
 
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gyro.pete

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I'm mostly a experimental fixed wing guy, but I did "build" (if you can call it that) a single place Dominator long ago. I also have time in an RAF which also got me a sport gyroplane endorsement on my PPL. I was sort of burnt out on flying when I had the Dom, and only flew it a handful of hours before getting out of aviation completely for about 5 years.

Now that we're settled in east TN, I'm back in fixed wing again, and even added an A&P rating. I've always liked the HKS engine, but they were so expensive that I never bought one. About 6 months ago, I found one fairly close by that had low hours, and was a good deal, so I have it running on a test stand. The original plan was yet another fixed wing (RidgeRunner3), but I've become interested in gyros again. Around here, a gyro would represent a big step up in safety if you ever had to make an emergency landing, and it would be better for the local flying I'd do in a slow plane anyway. I'm trying to finish a Sonex Onex with a 912, so I'll have a plane already anyway.

So finally to the question, what would make a good gyro for the HKS 700E (60HP) engine? The first gyro I ever saw was a Sport Copter Vortex, and I think that would work pretty well. I like the semi-enclosure much better than being completely out in the breeze. My Dom had the pod and windscreen, but that was still pretty breezy. I didn't much care for the high seating and long spindly gear legs on the Dom, so I'd probably rather stick with something closer to the Vortex. I haven't been looking long, but it doesn't seem like the Vortex copters come up for sale too often. Any other suggestions?

Also, a bonus question. Are there any gyros flying around East TN?

Thanks,
Rusty

Rusty,
I have an Air Command Elite Single-Place with Rotax 503 engine. I've been flying the gyro for about 8 years. By now it's time to get the engine overhauled or I can sell the gyro without the engine. Would you be interested to buy this gyro without the engine for your HKS 700E gyro project? Pete
 

13brv3

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Rusty,
I have an Air Command Elite Single-Place with Rotax 503 engine. I've been flying the gyro for about 8 years. By now it's time to get the engine overhauled or I can sell the gyro without the engine. Would you be interested to buy this gyro without the engine for your HKS 700E gyro project? Pete
Hi Pete,

It's not something I've looked into, and of course I'd need a lot more info. I think you're quite a bit outside of my comfortable trailering range as well. If you're looking to sell, drop me an email at 13brv3(at)gmail-dot-com with pictures and more info.

Rusty
 

13brv3

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OK, so here's the post where I admit that I've been duped by marketing, and my own stubbornness. I decided to try to find comparisons between the HKS power, and the 503 and 582. Over the years I've always heard "weight of a 582 and power of a 503" when people spoke of testing the HKS.

I found a few threads with some various measurements from static thrust tests, or flight figures, which can never really be compared. The most interesting and irrefutable information I found comes from basic calculations. It seems that a 680 CC engine at 6200 RPM, without supercharging would be expected to make about 45 HP. That figure was quoted in a number of posts, and can be found by going to any of the generic HP calculators online. This actually does explain a lot, though it's sort of embarrassing to just figure this out now...

The HKS may still be a good choice for some fixed wing aircraft, but I officially agree that it's not going to be a good choice for a gyro. The good news is that I got a decent deal on the engine when I bought it, and it was fun to play with, but it looks like time for a Barnstormers ad. I'll move to the 912, or look into the many new and unproven conversions that are popping up everywhere.

Rusty
 

Tyger

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I wouldn't have said anything previously, but finding a gyro for a particular engine does rather seem like putting the cart in front of the horse (so to speak).
 
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