Gyro ownership: traditional designs vs more modern/ manufactured designs?

[BrianInVa]

Hi folks,
After reading the forum for several months now, I’m really intrigued by the question of how many current gyro pilots/ owners are flying more traditional and/ or home built gyros such as Bensens, Brocks etc, and how many are flying more modern and / or commercially available designs?

(I’m picking up my first, a KB2, tomorrow.)

 

[GyrOZprey]

Well - the ones that travel to events are mostly owners/fliers of more modern designs!

We offered 3 special AWARDS and cash prize for "Classic Bensens" at this spring's Bensen Days 50th anniversary event. - also the 70th anniversary of Bensen's first flight in the gyro glider - next year we get another shot at a 70th Bensen anniversary - of the first Bensen powered flight!

NO ONE brought a Bensen gyro to Wauchula - we awarded a prize to the resident modified Bensen found in the hangar & used by a local.

A few of the remaining active PRA chapters have flying Bensens - the majority of Brocks/Bensens are found out at Chapter One - El Mirage CA.

Of those on the forum - I'd guess about 2/3 -modern 1/3 classic gyro designs!

 

[BrianInVa]

Of those on the forum - I'd guess about 2/3 -modern 1/3 classic gyro designs!

Great info, thanks!

So the more traditional designs are still up and flying. That’s encouraging. The one I’m buying is from the 1980s. It was originally a McCullouch but that motor is long gone so I’ll be mounting a Rotax 582 on it.

 

[GyroChuck]

I have a Snobird tandem gyro. Currently getting an engine upgrade.

 

[Sv.grainne]

I looked at a variety of machines. One of my concerns was being able to do inspections and maintenance. Figured I would have a problem finding an A&P who would even look at a Gyro so built an Aviomania kit.

 

[Doug Riley]

Modern designs are considerably safer than Bensens and Bensen copies.

 

[BrianInVa]

Modern designs are considerably safer than Bensens and Bensen copies.

I ended up bringing home a Brock KB2 last month. The seller included a Rotax 503 for it since the original Mac 72hp was long gone, and I traded it even up for a Rotax 582.

I’m going to modify the frame with a taller mast to accommodate the 582 and its prop, and elevate the seat and controls similar to an Air Command so it’s close to center line thrust. I have a taller front wheel assembly to add to keep the front level with the main landing gear, and I just found slightly larger and wider wheels and tires for it with hydraulic breaks. Currently it has old relatively narrow 12” tires so they’d need replaced but these are wider and 15” and they’ll be better for the local grass airstrip 2 miles from my house.

I'm also going to add a tall tail and a 12v starter prerotator, and a 36” hub bar instead of my current 24”, so the original Bensen rotor will be 23’ instead of 22’. And I’m successfully losing weight so I should be down to 250lbs before I ever attempt to fly it.

I was able to locate the fellow in Texas who originally put this Brock KB2 together based on paperwork that came with it and a quick internet search.

He just called me back and we had a great chat. He said he built it in 1986, completely from a factory kit. Everything was included in the kit including the hardware, and all parts were pre drilled. So I feel better about it than if he had just built it from plans.

He said it flew great and he learned to do some gyro aerobatics with it. He used to go to the local county fair and do air shows in it and flew it occasionally for ten years before he sold it.

I just finished my third hour of flight instruction yesterday towards a sport pilot certificate and I’ll be completing gyro training following that.

So I’m on my way.

 

[F5 Tornado]

I ended up bringing home a Brock KB2 last month. The seller included a Rotax 503 for it since the original Mac 72hp was long gone, and I traded it even up for a Rotax 582.

I’m going to modify the frame with a taller mast to accommodate the 582 and its prop, and elevate the seat and controls similar to an Air Command so its close to center line thrust. I have a taller front wheel assembly to add to keep the front level with the main landing gear, and I just found slightly larger and wider wheels and tires for it with hydraulic breaks. Currently it has old 12” tires so they’d need replaced but these are wider and 15”.

I'm also going to add a tall tail and a 12v starter prerotator, and a 36” hub bar instead of my current 24”, so the original Bensen rotor will be 23’ instead of 22’. And I’m successfully losing weight so I should be down to 250lbs before I ever attempt to fly it.

I was able to locate the fellow in Texas who originally put this Brock KB2 together based on paperwork that came with it and I quick internet search.

He just called me back and we had a great chat. He said he built it in 1986, completely from a factory kit. Everything was included in the kit including the hardware, and all parts were pre drilled. So I feel better about it than if he had just built it from plans.

He said it flew great and he learned to do some gyro aerobatics with it. He used to go to the local county fair and do air shows in it and flew it occasionally for ten years before he sold it.

I just finished my third hour of flight instruction yesterday towards a sport pilot certificate and I’ll be completing gyro training following that.

So I’m on my way.

Sounds like a pretty good plan Brian. Good luck to you. Take lots of pics and video of your build. There really isn't that much on YouTube.

 

[Gyro-nut]

Are you getting your sport pilot rating in fixed wing and then transitioning?

 

[MikeBoyette]

Brian,
Word of advice most people, especially those ignorant of gyro flight characteristics view normal semi aggressive flight as aerobatics. This is is an incorrect assumption. What you witnessed Barry doing in his Army Dominator is Aerobatics. The rest is just flying a gyro to its capabilities, which some misinterpret as being aggrsssive or dangerous. You will generally see them flying their “modern gyro” as if it were a factory built Spam can like Cessna 150 or 172.

Another lessor learned by many the hard way especially low time gyro pilots. The three C’s cause accidents. Cameras,Crowds, and Cockiness. Avoid these ego traps and you will be a safer pilot.

 

[BrianInVa]

Are you getting your sport pilot rating in fixed wing and then transitioning?

Yes. Least expensive option, and at the local airport 18 miles away.

 

[BrianInVa]

Brian,
Word of advice most people, especially those ignorant of gyro flight characteristics view normal semi aggressive flight as aerobatics. This is is an incorrect assumption. What you witnessed Barry doing in his Army Dominator is Aerobatics. The rest is just flying a gyro to its capabilities, which some misinterpret as being aggrsssive or dangerous. You will generally see them flying their “modern gyro” as if it were a factory built Spam can like Cessna 150 or 172.

Another lessor learned by many the hard way especially low time gyro pilots. The three C’s cause accidents. Cameras,Crowds, and Cockiness. Avoid these ego traps and you will be a safer pilot.

Thanks.

I’ve been riding motorcycles since I was ten but I’m not a knee dragger, I’m actually a fairly reserved rider and I don’t take chances. As such I’ve never put a bike down on the road in all those years, fortunately.

My gyro flying is going to be an extension of my bike riding style, mostly sedate sightseeing. I’m no show off, I’m too risk averse for that. Not sure what the heck I’m doing on bikes or aircraft given this though …

 

[MikeBoyette]

Thanks.

I’ve been riding motorcycles since I was ten but I’m not a knee dragger, I’m actually a fairly reserved rider and I don’t take chances. As such I’ve never put a bike down on the road in all those years, fortunately.

My gyro flying is going to be an extension of my bike riding style, mostly sedate sightseeing. I’m no show off, I’m too risk averse for that. Not sure what the heck I’m doing on bikes or aircraft given this though …

Picked the right aircraft. Think of your KB2 as a woods bike and those “modern gyros” as expensive Honda Goldwings.

 

[BrianInVa]

Picked the right aircraft. Think of your KB2 as a woods bike and those “modern gyros” as expensive Honda Goldwings.

Perfect! Most of my bikes have been cheap used dual sports or sport touring bikes, Hondas, Kawasakis and Suzukis.

I really like the wide open cockpit of this Brock KB2. Reminds me of my KLRs and DRs.

 

[WaspAir]

In post #7 you talk about taller mast, different engine, raised seat, new nose gear, different wheels, different prerotator, larger rotor span, new tall tail ...

Doesn't sound like it's a KB2 anymore. That's not a bad thing, but the name hardly applies.

 

[BrianInVa]

Doesn't sound like it's a KB2 anymore. That's not a bad thing, but it the name hardly applies.

Agreed. Franken-Brock?

This affordable KB2 got me into a gyro, something I never dreamed would happen. My further research and my visit with the Carolina Barnstormers and seeing all the gyros there has me convinced to modify it. And I’ve been able to buy or trade my way into most of what I think needs to be upgraded.

I’m certainly open to prudent advice or constructive criticism.

Hopefully when I’m done it will more resemble a simplified Air Command than a KB2. But it won’t have the suspension/ landing gear assembly of an Air Command.

 

[BrianInVa]

One step ahead - taller front wheel and fork assembly in place of original front wheel, to keep the front wheel co planar with the main landing gear when I raise the mast and the 2x2 tube supporting the seat and controls. This maintains the rudder front wheel steering system:


Original front wheel:

The center pull caliper bike brake should be an improvement over the original piece’o’plywood friction brake.

 

[F5 Tornado]

Thanks.

I’ve been riding motorcycles since I was ten but I’m not a knee dragger, I’m actually a fairly reserved rider and I don’t take chances. As such I’ve never put a bike down on the road in all those years, fortunately.

My gyro flying is going to be an extension of my bike riding style, mostly sedate sightseeing. I’m no show off, I’m too risk averse for that. Not sure what the heck I’m doing on bikes or aircraft given this though …

I too have been riding motorcycles since I was a kid, but there's where the difference is between you and I. You rode street bikes and chose to cruise, where as I rode motocross and chose to send it. LOL. Don't get me wrong , I rode street bikes also . I had a Suzuki GSXR 1100 and I currently have a Honda CBR 929 RR. I don't believe that will roll over into flying gyros with me, because I got all the adrenaline out of my system, when I was younger. Now I just want to fly.

 

[F5 Tornado]

One step ahead - taller front wheel and fork assembly in place of original front wheel, to keep the front wheel co planar with the main landing gear when I raise the mast and the 2x2 tube supporting the seat and controls. This maintains the rudder front wheel steering system. (It’s not completely secured yet):
View attachment 1162144

Original front wheel:
View attachment 1162145
The center pull caliper bike brake should be an improvement over the original piece’o’plywood friction brake.

You know, it wouldn't be too hard to incorporate some suspension to these Bensen/KB2's. Find a used pocket bike rolling chassis. The front forks, wheel, and disk brakes would probably mate right up to the existing castor with a little fabrication. Then pull the dual shocks (hopefully you found 1 with dual rear shocks) off the pocket bike, a couple brackets, spindles and control arms and you have some rear suspension. It won't have much travel, but enough to dampen that grassy strip. Be sure to run low tire pressure for increased damping. Are you modifying your KB2 with a kit, or are you fabricating all the mods yourself?
EDIT: Oh, also, you gotta fix that cable mount. That's way too high an angle for the cable to pull through. It'll fray, then snap on you in the most inopportune time.

 

[BrianInVa]

You know, it wouldn't be too hard to incorporate some suspension to these Bensen/KB2's. Find a used pocket bike rolling chassis. The front forks, wheel, and disk brakes would probably mate right up to the existing castor with a little fabrication. Then pull the dual shocks (hopefully you found 1 with dual rear shocks) off the pocket bike, a couple brackets, spindles and control arms and you have some rear suspension. It won't have much travel, but enough to dampen that grassy strip. Be sure to run low tire pressure for increased damping. Are you modifying your KB2 with a kit, or are you fabricating all the mods yourself?
EDIT: Oh, also, you gotta fix that cable mount. That's way too high an angle for the cable to pull through. It'll fray, then snap on you in the most inopportune time.

I don’t have any metal fabricating skills unfortunately but I do some woodworking so I’m making do. (My background is in healthcare.)

I just found a set of ultralight aircraft 15” tall, 6” wide tires and 6” wheels with hydraulic brakes I’ll be adding to it, to replace the original narrower 12” tires with no brake system. I think for now the best I can hope for as far as “suspension” is lower tire pressure in these taller tires for a little bit of cushion.