Go to Congress

[Roundwing]

To get the regulation changed for Third Class medical AOPA, EAA, and others took there case to Congress to force the FAA to change the regulations since they refused to do it themselves.

Maybe that is what the Gyro industry should do.

Organizations like the PRA along with manufactures of gyros should go to Congress and get a law passed to force the FAA to add gyros to the Sport pilot regulations.

It is such a huge safety issue I feel if borders on criminal that the FAA did the cut of gyros in Sport pilot regulations in the first place.

One of the FAA mandates is to promote aviation safety and but doing their cut out they are not promoting safety.

If there were certified Gyros that people could rent there would be more opportunity to get the proper training and reduce the number of accidents.

It would also grow the industry here in the US like it has in Europe.
From the turnout at this years PRA convention it appears as the gyro business is on the decline here.

Just a thought,

Rick

 

[Steve_UK]

Hi Rick - good points.

Couple of observations- plenty of new factory built kits still being imported and registered in the US - the last couple of years have been boom times for gyros in the States.

Certified Gyro - the good news is that the AG Calidus is on the verge of being certified in the US - by the end of September was one suggested date.

Bear in mind that the AG Cavalon Pro model recently obtained a UK Certificate of Airworthiness ( as opposed to a Permit all other gyros have in the UK ) - it wouldn't surprise me in the least if AG USA pursue a US Certification for the Cavalon Pro once they've completed the Calidus procedure - combining the knowledge from these two procedural experiences could be advantagious to the process.

PRA - I'm not sure any of the manufacturers have any proactive relationship with the PRA, AG USA have fought their own path with the FAA for the Calidus certification process.

Does the PRA represent gyros with the FAA, do they meet, confer and interact.

 

[All_In]

@Rick

Good suggestion, it never hurts to ask. Does anyone know where I can get an congressional email list. Once PRA has that we could also contact the EAA, AOPA, the manufactures, dealers, and ask on forums and facebook to contact there representatives and senators.

Also if anyone knows which congressmen and women helped get this passed I'd like to really concentrate on them. Many of PRA's projects are done or almost finished so I'll have more time = after I finish registering my ride. Sorry that will be first but will ask my buddy and Broad member Fransisco to get email addresses preparing.
U-ROCK!!!

===

Hi Rick - good points.
...

PRA - I'm not sure any of the manufacturers have any proactive relationship with the PRA, AG USA have fought their own path with the FAA for the Calidus certification process.

Does the PRA represent gyros with the FAA, do they meet, confer and interact.

@Steve
I hate to go negative with any post I can almost always find something positive to say.
First you use your imagination in Greg's accident report actually changing the words you posted from an email about the accident to landed on a SAND BAR that was the emailer's actual words to your imagination of landing on a crowed beach asking isn't that dangerous. When it never happened only Vance defended your imaginary accident report and I still do not know how he can learn from pretend information you just make up.

Now it's about PRA when Greg Gremminger had been meeting as the PRA representative with the FAA for YEARS until he got feed up when the main FAA representative told him that we are too small a group for the FAA to give a crap about. Fortunately there was another FAA representative at the meeting that just got a ride in a gyro and fell in love with them and she asked Greg to write a letter telling them what he said and she would back him up with the result of him being transferred. Only only gave up tyring telling me at Mentone 2015 and we are looking for another PRA representative as the FAA does recognizes that we have supported gyroplanes for over 50 years = only you do not know and start using your imagination again to go negative on PRA role that we are in a perfect position to help. There is no other organization that care about rotorcraft in the USA that I know of.

Currently PRA has been working with Roy of PSF magazine who has just met with the FAA trying to get an electric Trike with a greater ultralight weight limit and PRA was hoping they would say yes and then we would pigtail in on their efforts. However they said they do not really want more ultralights and feel they adding LSA's has already provided an easier route to become a pilot. Roy feels they will never increase the weight limit for ultralights the same thing Greg G feels.

My question to you is why are you using your imagination again to diminish the PRA now when you do not have a clue?

I do not see how I can trust any of your posts except for registrations that anyone can look up on the FAA's site.

 

[All_In]

I think Rick as a great idea and need some help creating a basic letter to send to congress.
The idea is to select your congressmen and women and email them but also CC FAA officials that we know our for gyroplanes and against them.
The letter needs to point out the their rules make it more dangerous for students to learn to fly without accidents.

Here is an example.
Because of the FAA leaving gyroplanes out of the LSA it is illegal to rent the exact same aircraft that they were trained in to solo creating a more dangerous situation with the instructor watching from the ground advising with a radio how to control a gyroplane that the instructor may have never flown and that most likely has totally different flight characteristics.

It needs to be rewritten but you get the idea.

What other facts can we include that the FAA's current rules make our sport less safe?

 

[Steve_UK]

Hi John - Can I reply to your direct comment ( although you've gone way off this subject of this thread. )

I think the best place to comment on the beach accident is on the original thread rather than side track this one although I recall several posts by Greg were subsequently removed making the reading less than coherent, here's the link for you to comment

www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45692

----------------------------------------------------

You ask - ""My question to you is why are you using your imagination again to diminish the PRA now when you do not have a clue?

I do not see how I can trust any of your posts except for registrations that anyone can look up on the FAA's site.""


Remember this is a forum. Postings generate replies, comments and feedback. I am not a PRA Board of Director. I have no party line to toe.

Based on what I read hear, much of it published by your very own hand then in my opinion the PRA appears to be some way off the pace.

I don't expect you to agree - that's the beauty of forums.

Don't take it personally - it's just dialogue.

If you want unrestrained praise then join the Peoples Party in Pyongyang.





__________________

 

[All_In]

Hi John - Can I reply to your direct comment ( although you've gone way off this subject of this thread. )

I think the best place to comment on the beach accident is on the original thread rather than side track this one although I recall several posts by Greg were subsequently removed making the reading less than coherent, here's the link for you to comment

www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45692

----------------------------------------------------

You ask - ""My question to you is why are you using your imagination again to diminish the PRA now when you do not have a clue?

I do not see how I can trust any of your posts except for registrations that anyone can look up on the FAA's site.""

Remember this is a forum. Postings generate replies, comments and feedback. I am not a PRA Board of Director. I have no party line to toe.

Based on what I read hear, much of it published by your very own hand then in my opinion the PRA appears to be some way off the pace.

I don't expect you to agree - that's the beauty of forums.

Don't take it personally - it's just dialogue.

If you want unrestrained praise then join the Peoples Party in Pyongyang.
__________________

I certainly do not help for praise. If that were the case I would have quit years ago. I do it to make the gyro community a better place!

So far your PRA posts have been based on no knowledge as to what PRA has done or is doing!!!

However constructive criticism is always welcome by ME! It's often the only way I learn a change of policy is required or the dates of our fly-in needs to be changed or that some of our gyro community desire a non-PRA logo set of wings and we CHANGE and I appreciate them very much.

So far all of your posts about PRA are based on your imagination and have no bases in fact and have all been negative! You have never asked me before posting what we have done or are doing you only lie in your posts and disparage PRA. What have you ever done to help grow the sport?

You only post registrations and accidents and I've never even seen even ONE post where a pilot and or passenger has died that you have ever offered condolences to their family. I'm still waiting for you to do that to Chris who just lost her husband. You really need to grow a hart in that regard. I hope this helps you to be a better caring person in the future and is offered as constructive criticism in order to help you learn what people who really care do.

But I would like to learn your suggestions on how PRA could get on the MARK.

So my question to you not expecting any helpful anwser, as you are ALWAYS negative, is what would you suggest PRA do to help our community more?

We would be only to happy to change any program and add programs if you have any knowledge what would help our community please share your positive ideas and suggestions! Else it would be better for you to just shut up when you have not investigated what we are doing and only post your negative figments of your imagination.

 

[WaspAir]

Geez, All_In, you really were spring loaded to attack on this. I know some here hold big grudges over prior discussions, but what caused an un-leashing of the laundry list of all complaints here? Sticking with the topic at hand, I see only QUESTIONS in that post:

PRA - I'm not sure any of the manufacturers have any proactive relationship with the PRA, AG USA have fought their own path with the FAA for the Calidus certification process.

Does the PRA represent gyros with the FAA, do they meet, confer and interact.

You complained that he didn't ask:

So far all of your posts about PRA are based on your imagination and have no bases in fact and have all been negative! You have never asked me before posting what we have done or are doing you only lie in your posts and disparage PRA.

It looked to me like he was asking in that post.

We'll never get along here if everybody reads all posts through a filter of resentment from past actions.

 

[All_In]

Geez, All_In, you really were spring loaded to attack on this. I know some here hold big grudges over prior discussions, but what caused an un-leashing of the laundry list of all complaints here? Sticking with the topic at hand, I see only QUESTIONS in that post:

You complained that he didn't ask:

It looked to me like he was asking in that post.

We'll never get along here if everybody reads all posts through a filter of resentment from past actions.

Hi Jon
I did not see Steve's responses as truthful or helpful to moving Rick's idea forward.

I have often put in over 40+ hours a week (I work 20 hour days 7 days a week so that's less than 50%) in helping the gyropalne community for at least three years now and before that about 10 hours a week as a volunteer. It is getting less now as many of the projects are coming to furishion.

More than 1/2 of the phone calls to the office are answering non-PRA members questions and get so tire of people like Steve who never help only complain.

I do not understand why he would even ask the questions if they were questions as it would be so easy for PRA to reach out to manufactures and MAKE relationships for their common good even if we did not have ANY currently. The manufactures are not numerous, hidden or hard to find what a dumb thing to say or even ask!!!

Is there ANY other group you or Steve know of that would or could help move his idea forward? Please let me know who has helped in the past as there are several project I would love to have help with.

Jon how does it help Rick move forward?

I solely see it has negative and part of the problem and not helpful in any way.

Now Jon if you or Steve would really like to try and help and be part of the solution instead of the problem here is the only question that can help Rick move forward.

What other facts can we include that the FAA's current rules make our sport less safe?

How about actually helping our community?

 

[Rambler]

Damn John....I put that ill willed twit on IGNORE and u unwittingly quoted his dribble.uke:

Crap. I know u meant no ill will John in responding to the twit in regards to my

reading more twit dribble...........u r O.K. w/ me in all other respects so don't

take my criticism to heart.

 

[All_In]

Damn John....I put that ill willed twit on IGNORE and u unwittingly quoted his dribble.uke:

Crap. I know u meant no ill will John in responding to the twit in regards to my

reading more twit dribble...........u r O.K. w/ me in all other respects so don't

take my criticism to heart.

I know many have and I got so many emails and PM's about him I should have known not to quote his posts.
I will not quote his negative posts in the future and protect you and the others who have him on ignore.

Sorry about that it was only habit.

 

[WaspAir]

John, I have nothing but respect, gratitude, and admiration for all the time you put in selflessly for the benefit of other gyro pilots. I just hate to see things collapse into hateful exchanges so easily and so often, and I continue to hope that we can all get along with less acrimony and more tolerance. The community is too small to have people always at odds with each other.

 

[All_In]

John, I have nothing but respect, gratitude, and admiration for all the time you put in selflessly for the benefit of other gyro pilots. I just hate to see things collapse into hateful exchanges so easily and so often, and I continue to hope that we can all get along with less acrimony and more tolerance. The community is too small to have people always at odds with each other.

Jon I actually know you are correct and will try and do better. From now on I will just not respond to him and turn the other cheek.

 

[All_In]

Hi Rick
Here is an update.
Fransisco, a board member, as volunteered to get the congressional email list which will make it easy for rotorheads to find their representatives, the manufactures to email all of them.
He will also search for email addresses for all the dealers and manufactures. PRA needs this anyway.
We will try and get AROPA and EAA to help as we are members of both, but do not hold your breath.
...
NEXT STEPS

1. Write the letter
2. We will advertise in PSF for the general flying public to join in the writing campaign.
3. We will post in forums.
4. We will post on Facebook in as many flying pages as we can find.