Futura from AeroCopter Span

Re: Futura from AeroCopter Span

Fly with the doors on -- sure. Plenty of fin, that's why. Doors are not a problem unless they cause a shift of the centre of pressure too far forward, that the vertical stab (or other vertical surfaces aft of the centre of mass) can't overcome. If they do, you will have a very "footy" gyro -- basic physics, centre of pressure needs to be behind the centre of mass for stability. <br><br>I thought this gyro was really interestiing and looked it up in Google... found no website but a few hits. It was introduced in Madrid in 2002. The cabin is an adapted Rotorway one. It took 70-80 metres (230-260 ft) to take off and landed practically vertically. The poster (in a spanish aviation newsgroup) was astounded that the factory pilot claimed that it flew better in some wind ("that makes hovering and sideways flight possible,") so he's clearly not an old gyro hand. <br><br>He claims speeds of 170 top, 140 cruise (that's Km/h; in MPH 104/85 and in knots 92/76. So it's in the same ballpark with other two-seat cabin gyroplanes. The prototype was shown all around Europe in 2002/03 and has the BMW bike engine mentioned, but references to it on the net say that it will also take a Soob. <br><br>The web site appears defunct: https://www.aerocopter-europa.com/index.html.<br><br>This page mentions the site on its "photos that'll kill ya" page: https://perso.club-internet.fr/rvtpanet/Photos qui tuent/photos_qui_tuent.htm but it still has the busted link. <br><br>Anybody have further information?<br><br>cheers<br><br>-=K=-
 
Re: Futura from AeroCopter Span

It has rotorsport big blades and head. The BMW is not good in this gyro it will overheat.  The Sub makes anything a wqeight pig. A 914 would work best or a MZ 301P, Hirth F30, 3701. <br>I posted this photo on the rotorcraft forum that was going under but is still up and running, what ever. someone posted a flying price of 68,000 U.S. I will not be getting one anytime soon. Still looks cool.
 
Re: Futura from AeroCopter Span

How do you see it small? I bet it is over 68" small would be under 60 " to me.
 
Re: Futura from AeroCopter Span

Looks as if they decided to preserve a favorable thrust alignment, picking a small, multi-blade prop at the expense of some efficiency.
<br><br>Well, Paul, we dunno what gearing they have. That scooter engine would have to make its HP at a bazillion RPMs. Depending on what the prop shaft gears down to, you might be forced into a small prop to keep away from compressibility in the tips. (Carter did some inadvertent research in that domain back in 1998-99). <br><br>I've always wondered why no one in XA/UL ever used a planetary gearbox to provide counterrotating props. (Maybe someone did and I didn't know). Designing the gearbox is straightforward enough. Doug Schwochert designed and built a simple gearbox to reverse the output of a Solar turbine; Jim Stewart (I think it was him) designed a great gearbox for auto conversions. Why not a CR prop gearbox?<br><br>The trade-off downside on the 4-cycle Rotaxes is maintainability and warranty. You know, if you burn cylinders in a fresh Continental, there is a pro-rata warranty (BTDT). Do it in a Rotax and "esta tu don mierde" as the excitable fellows down south say. ("you're Lord Ca-ca" more or less).  Or K MAGYOYO as the Army acronym put it. Even Rotax OEM customers get blown off for parts and service... which is why you can't buy a new plane with a certified 912 any more, the manufacturer redesigned the plane to use a different motor. <br><br>If you lunch a Soob, you buy a new Soob. No warranty at all in this application. <br><br>If you compare a Soob with a VW, the Soob weighs more but makes twice the power. Soobs are more properly compared with aero engines of equivalent power, like a 320. (and then, where's the weight benefit?). I'm wondering if an O-235 would be in interesting choice for a gyro. I'd have to look up the weights. <br><br>Carter has run LS-1 Corvette engines with some success in their larger, heavier machine. An earlier attempt to use a auto racing V-6 failed miserably. <br><br>cheers<br><br>-=K=-
 
Re: Futura from AeroCopter Span

Brent,<br><br>After looking at several pictures, including some with humans standing next to it for perespective, your 68-inch guestimate seems about right. Still, with that much machine to push, and that much room under the tall mast, you know it must have been tempting to go bigger.
 
Re: Futura from AeroCopter Span

;D  I tried the above link and was able to go to their site and look at the gyro info.  Looks great!<br><br>Terry
 
Re: Futura from AeroCopter Span

Sure enough, when I switch off "block pop-ups" (a menu item on my browser that sensibly defaults to "on," I was able to see the web site. Thanks, Steven, for the tip. It never occurred to me that web designers that dim were still employed anywhere!<br><br>From a usability standpoint, it's the worst website I've seen since the nineties... lots of ugly chartreuse, little real information, but there is real info there. You just have to fight your way through the jungles of Flash and crap to find it. <br><br>The machine is a prototype that is some months from shipping.  It looks like visibility from the pilot's seat would be not too good compared to RAF or AAI's machines, let alone an open gyro. <br><br>Thanks also to the gent that posted the BMW information. It looks like a good deal till you start adding up the prices on the a la carte menu. The thing is that the BMW motor is 72 or 75 HP (they offer two versions) so it probably is going to give you a pretty lame climb with 2 on board the Futura. It's pretty light for a 4-stroke with 75 HP though, and it's a compact, attractive motor. I think that you are getting a break on it with the Futura kit.<br><br>More HP won't make you go much faster (especially not safely) but it will make you climb out more briskly -- anybody that has watched RAF doing demo flights with both the regular Soob and Duane's more powerful machine on hand has seen it in action. <br><br>Climb performance is part of safety... or is it, operating your machine within its climb performance limits?<br><br>cheers<br><br>-=K=-
 
Re: Futura from AeroCopter Span

OK, apart from b----ing about the website, here are some facts from it:<br><br>Price - 55,000 w/BMW (75 HP?) 58,000 w/Subaru not including tax and shipping (Euros)  (about 66,000 and 70,400 at today's rate).<br>Delivery - four months from order<br>The site doesn't say if that is a kit or a completed a/c. <br><br>Empty weight     270 kg (594 lb)<br>MTOW                450 kg (990 lb)<br><br>Height                315 cm (124 in)    [10 feet 4 inches]<br>Length               390 cm (153.5 in) [12 feet 9.5 inches]<br>Width                 210 cm (82.7 in)   [6 feet 10.7 inches]<br>Rotor Diameter   850 cm (334.6 in) [27 feet 10.6 inches]<br><br>Performance<br>---------------<br>Min Vel                40 km/h   (24 mph/22kt)<br>Max Vel              190 km/h  (116 mph/103 kt)<br>Cruise                160 km/h  (98 mph/86 kt)<br>Take Off             100 m       (328 ft)<br>Landing                  5 m       (16 ft)<br><br>Included<br>-----------<br>Luxury interior<br>4-point belts<br>Instrumentation (altimeter, rate-of-climb, turn-and-bank, airspeed, engine and rotor tachometers, oil pressure and temperature, water temperature, radio/intercom [MicroAir 760], compass, fuel gage, hour meter<br><br>Navigation, strobe and landing lights<br><br>hydraulic brakes<br><br>3-bladed Woodcomp Kremen prop, electrically adjustable inflight<br><br>Sport Copter rotors (8.5m) incorporating a high energy prerotator (250 rpm). <br><br>Rotor and wheel brakes, ported and ventilated. <br><br>Your choice of colours. <br><br>=====<br>Commentary:<br><br>Performance numbers different from what was cited in the report from the airshow. No word on whether these are demonstrated or estimated numbers. <br><br>The weights are fishy, and are less than other 2-place machines. Useful load is low (and payload? Well, without more on fuel tankage we can't know that, or range). Useful load with the Soob would probably make the machine a functional single-seater. <br><br>So far it looks like only the one prototype is flying. No word on customer aircraft or even a second prototype. <br><br>They claim 100 HP from the BMW 1100. <br><br>Price is kind of high for what you get. If you want to pay premium price for a high-touch gyroplane, the Magni has that, and has a safety record, and excellent US representation. <br><br>Boy, I wasn't gonna say this again, but that website is the lamest and worst designed in the aviation industry. You can't even copy text off the page because the retard that "developed" it (it's all done with freebie amateur javascript off the net) disabled that. Why? It also takes the entire size of my screen (1280 x 854) and puts a little info window in the middle. The design of the website is so oriented to visual-stunts-above-fact, that I wouldn't personally trust the company. <br><br>The website also does not identify ANY individuals involved with the company, or talk about stability AT ALL, or aerodynamics AT ALL. Compare that to your experience trying to learn about Dominator, or Sport Copter, or AAI or RAF. <br><br>We have had a lot of problems in aviation with machines that were "styled" and the engineering, if any, was applied afterward. Need I name names (keeping it out of gyros, BD-5, [heck, BD-anything!], Dream Wings, those ring a bell?). Again -- it adds up to an interesting concept but looks like it would be an extremely risky purchase without a lot more information... information that they must have but are sitting on, for some reason. <br><br>If you want a 2-place enclosed gyro, side-by-side, AAI, RAF, and Barnett will sell you one today (for half the price of this). If all you need is 2-place the market opens up. Magni is working on an enclosed tandem machine, Barnett has one already, and I'm probably forgetting somebody. <br><br>cheers<br><br>-=K=-
 
Re: Futura from AeroCopter Span

::)  Well, I have to agree, that besides it looking like a great gyro, looks won't prevent you from being killed if it's a poorly designed craft.  Personally, my 2 choices for gyro are either the Sportcopter or Magni gyro.  And, due to an 18 month old bundle of joy and getting other bills cleared out first, I don't expect to be cavorting in the air in my own gyro for at least another 9 or 10 years.  Still, by then, I'll have saved enough to afford a Magni or Sportcopter and get a trailer for it, as well as getting my pilots license.  Time and money is all it takes :)<br><br>Terry
 
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