Fun Stuff

Strange video. Normal Eurotubs with Rotax214 engines. Proclaiming to be a military squadron. When we all know gyros aren't suited for military use.
Flying much too close for comfort, when one can't see the rotor disc. Very well done, but why?

Cheers
Erik
 
rcflier;n1142619 said:
Strange video. Normal Eurotubs with Rotax214 engines. Proclaiming to be a military squadron. When we all know gyros aren't suited for military use.
Flying much too close for comfort, when one can't see the rotor disc. Very well done, but why?

Cheers
Erik
Click to expand...

My opinion (worth what you paid for it): The Chinese know very well how these aircraft can be used for military offensive purposes, even though they are calling them "Defense Forces".

Do not dismiss this demonstration of formation flying and agile maneuvers of these gyros because there are
superior jet-engined helicopters and airplanes (as well as missiles) used by other countries that can deliver gunfire and bombs at a faster and farther rate.

I can think of several uses their military can use them for. There are a few niches in aviation that a gyroplane can shine, such as extreme NOE flying to avoid radar, like helicopters can.

Just as has been done w/ airplanes, they can ascend to high altitudes, the engines shut off, and then fly for many miles quietly, w/ only the gentle swishing of rotorblades to be heard. By avoiding hard turns or banks, the whop-whop sounds of the rotors are avoided. No jet engine whine. Piston engine can easily be restarted after mission completed, b/4 getting too low, and then fly away.

Payloads can be air-dropped by the pilot, from weapons to food to medical supplies. Even ammo could be air-dropped. Carrying only the pilot allows for payload capacity to be worthwhile and delivered, w/out having to have a prepared runway surface below.

Cargo can be tossed overboard by the pilot. A steep ramp for cargo to be slid overboard located behind the pilot where the passenger normally sits would enable the pilot to just activate a switch or button to release the cargo. Under the keel could also work. Cargo located at the COG wouldn't cause any upset in the flight when released.

If fear of entanglement in the rear prop (or even possibly the rotorblades) of the cargo or parachute is a concern, the brief moment when a gyroplane is brought to a stop in the air b/4 starting a vertical descent is an ideal time to release cargo.
Executing a sharp turn/bank prior would lengthen that moment briefly since the turn/bank would speed up the rotors and help "hover" for the drop.

Using some sort of folding auto-rotating rotor could slow the descent of cargo instead of a parachute, where it opens it's rotorblades ALA the toy rubber band-launched Arrowcopter as it drops away from the gyro.

There are offensive possibilities in crowd control, whether on their own population, or other country's people. There is observation, or even aerial combat possibilities, although the latter might be more of a cheaper aircraft and less-expensively trained pilot used as a sacrifice to bring down another more advanced (expensive) aircraft and pilot.

Notice one of the pilots was shown as a woman. It doesn't take any large amount of upper body strength to learn how to fly any aircraft. Gyroplanes are quite easy to learn how to safely fly. Stay w/in it's flight envelope (which includes proper rotorblade management in the takeoff phase as well) and it is a docile aircraft when flown w/in that envelope. There are lots of women in the Chinese military. Lots more civilians to draw from to teach how to fly a gyroplane.

Being such a compact aircraft, think of how many can fit into a cargo plane, to be flown anywhere and then deployed. If a few are lost in combat, so what? They are cheap compared to other military aircraft to buy/build, and the flight skills easy to teach to beginner pilots who haven't flown anything else before. Low expense for acquisition, and low cost to train the pilots. An easily expendable aircraft and pilot. China has oodles of money and billions of people to draw from. Think like a swarm of bees, just as people are doing so WRT drones.

The video reveals they are keenly aware of how close they can fly to each other's rotorblades. Chances are highly likely that they suffered some lost pilots and gyroplanes to learn just how close they can be w/out
entangling. When flying in close proximity, one can see the rotorblade disk and tips of other's.

During the smoke portion, notice how each pilot behind the first flys just a tad higher above the smoke of the machine in front of them. People w/ military training and flying experience have taught these flying skills to their pilots. They probably have learned just how much smoke in the air just in front of another gyro's engine's intake can handle. Once again, lessons probably learned the hard way.

The sharply turning sequence: They know when their maneuvers "run out of steam" in a gyroplane, which is
usually when airspeed has dropped to almost zero. Lessons learned, again. I'm betting they have found the gyroplane's edge of the envelope, and had some of their pilots & machines go beyond that.

I believe the Chinese have scrutinized the gyroplane fatality that occured at the World Flying Games in the middle east a couple of years back. They've learned what can bring a gyroplane down out of the air when going beyond it's flight envelope, even though that pilot had some flight time in tandem gyros. Lessons learned.

Say what you will re: the Chinese copying intellectual material and products of other manufacturers. I believe they learn all they can by doing so, and then improve upon it when coupled w/ their own intelligence.

I see a propaganda video akin to past Soviet and other communist country's films parading their war machines down the streets of one of their major cities, passing throngs of their people cheering. It is meant to send a message, a warning. I'm sobered (and feel the cold chill down my back) by it, because I believe they, being human, show what they want, while withholding their best from public view, which, is just what the US military does, until the secret is no longer. By then, another aircraft has already been developed and tested.

I strongly suspect we in the rest of the world will someday see how intelligent and/or ruthless the Chinese really are, when we learn what they eventually use the autogyro for in more than just recreational flying.
 
Thanks, Kolibri282, this is really amusing.

Well, let's see --
No speed, no stealth, no payload, no weapons, no airframe protective armor, no pilot protection, no ejection seats, no radar, no targeting systems, no IFR capability, no pressurization/oxygen, low ceiling, short range, what a formidable military machine!!!

A single 1918 Fokker D.VII could take out the whole squadron - see how far we've come in 100 years!
 
A 1/72 scale model of a D VII actually sparked my interest in flying machines almost sixty years ago, oh gosh.... I still have it and I had a really good laugh reading your idea of a D VII chasing that aerobatic squad....;-)
 
Hi Kevin. Not having a license myself, I did hesitate to write this. But this armchair ace (only 6 hours stick in hand logged (MTO Sport)) can't help thinking about your arguments.

1. The rotor as a lifting device is not very efficient - it eats power and spits out nearly nothing.
2. The glide ratio is the worst of all aircraft, maybe barring the Phantom II engine off, the "flying brick". Flying high and shutting engine off to glide unnoticed works much better in a plane.
3. The payload capacity is not larger than of a small, cheap plane (efficiency strikes again).

I've seen pictures showing some have been tried out by police forces in the US for surveillance - maybe because they are much, much cheaper to buy and operate than helis.
But as I see it, the force of the gyro is that it's rather cheap, doesn't stall (as such) and can be flown by low-time pilots.

Cheers
Erik
 
It seems that their gyro could easily be configured to carry and release a considerable payload of a few hundred pounds.
It could also be used to drop in or extricate an agent or soldier.
Install a 7.62 mini-gun and a few of them could wreak havoc.
For the money and reduced training over a helicopter, I think gyros could have a military niche.

Regards,
Kolibri
 
Iran also operates military gyros. Appear to be ELA models
 
Burkino Faso had several Xenons in a military role
 
Belorussian border guard operate several Magni gyros
 
The Qatari Coast Guard recently took delivery of some Auto-Gyro GmbH gyros
 
in many nations, the police-observation-border/coast watching role might be handled by military personnel, where the essential equipment is a radio for reporting. But there is no way on God's green earth I would ever ask any airman to take an ELA / Magni / Auto-Gyro / whatever-you-choose into combat, especially not with a whole squadron of colleagues along to attract extra unwanted attention. That would be like sending a skateboarder to a Formula 1 Grand Prix race.

And what would you do if the bad guys had a couple of D.VIIs?
 
I'm sure that guy has a great future as a security guard.
 
Gyro is 10% the cost of a helicopter some are certified for night VFR, for cheap aerial surveillance (pipeline, security detail, and now more recently fish spotting of the coast of Angola) it is a really good option.

Cheap to purchase, cheap to keep in the air and effective if used within its envelope, it's a winner, now with development of thermal imaging cameras for ground and mapping work it's the ideal STOL machine.

It can fly slow safely and for a pilot & spotter its ideal, why use a AS350 or B 505 at a higher cost if you just want eyes in the sky?

I agree a military option is possibly not the best use of this platform but again if you want cheap eyes in the sky in a safe aircraft to say find stolen cars or track animals as they do in (Kenya with Magni M24) I think it's a wonderful option provided the crew are trained accordingly

As an example why use a helicopter to do traffic reporting? A gyro will be just fine......obviously a helicopter is cooler no debate in that.
As Steve pointed out in his post many countries are using them and Saudi Arabia as well as Jordan are as well? Do they know something we don't?
 
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