Foreign Trade!

Dean_Dolph

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For what ever reason I've been getting a bunch of thought provoking and, if a person has a warped sense of humor, amusing emails. The last one I posted about Social Security certainly generated some comments. I have a few of my own but have been restraining myself!

Here is the latest


Think About this One!

A car company can move its factories to Mexico and claim it‘s a free market.

A toy company can out source to a Chinese subcontractor and claim it‘s a free market.

A major bank can incorporate in Bermuda to avoid taxes and claim it‘s a free market.

We can buy HP Printers made in Mexico We can buy shirts made in Bangladesh. We can purchase almost anything we want from 20 different countries

BUT, heaven help the elderly and anyone else who dare to buy their prescription drugs from a Canadian pharmacy. That‘s called un-American! And you think the pharmaceutical companies don‘t have a powerful lobby? Think again!

Please forward this to every person you know over age 50. It is an interesting point of view. Maybe this is an issue that should come up in the next election!

Forget the 50, send it to everyone . We‘re all in this boat together!
 
How can FDA do its job if you can buy around the system?

ultimately what happens is drug companies sell at higher cost in the US because of FDA regulations (pain in the ass BTW) and high liability risk. If most of the drugs ship to canada and then back, the liability risk of selling to canada becomes nearly the same as selling here, so it just hurts them in the long run.

Also some of the laws restricting sale are not US laws. for example it is illeagal by mexican law to get drugs without a mexican doctor....
 
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Great post Dean, at least this one has some truth to it…

Originally Posted by spaceman spiff;
“…ultimately what happens is drug companies sell at higher cost in the US because of FDA regulations (pain in the ass BTW) and high liability risk…”

Joe, regulations and liability aren’t the reasons we pay more than Canada. While they may have a small effect, the main reason is the discounts the drug companies give the Canadian government. And why do the drug companies do this? Because Canada, like the rest of the civilized world has a government run health care system that allows them to order drugs in such large quantities.

Too bad the Republican lackeys who always do the bidding of their corporate masters, lack the backbone to create a system the pharmaceutical companies might not like.
 
Seems to me that corporate-controlled lefty lackey Clinton promised us a state heath system.... :D (always three fingers point back when it comes to partisan finger pointing) he he. :D

Walgreens not big enough to get discounts? tsk tsk. there are 32 million canadians. The population of US is around 300 million. US Walgreens prescriptions is easily 4 or 5 times larger than the entire canadian heath system. Sounded good when Kerry said it though didn't it? Yes, if only Kerry could be king of the universe. The Canadian system wich runs on canadian taxes would be just overjoyed to serve our needs if only evil Bush would let them. :rolleyes:

Ever hear of someone in France or England or Canada sueng Merck? There are reasons for that. Part of it is culture. When the doctor in germany says "there is some potential risk of taking this drug" the patient hears "there is some risk..." . When the US doctor says the same thing the patient hears "this is perfect for everyone, sue a big company for no money down if you don't like it". The other part of that story is it is quite a bit harder to sue someone in another country.

one law suit hits merck and 8 percent is taken off the stocks in minutes. Still think the law suits don't have a huge effect?
 
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Just an FYI If you have ever been in the military you have experienced Gov Health Care.
All the compasion of the IRS, and the expediancy of the US Post Office.
NO THANKS!
There are problems that need to be addressed, But the Gov running it will not make it better. Name ONE thing the Gov has taken over and improved.
If you pay taxes, you should have health care, I am all for that.
But I also think that if you don't pay taxes or contribute anything to society, you should not be able to vote.
Anyone ever had to pay $90 for a Tylenol? The Hospitals and Insurance companys and Lawyers are as much to blame for High costs as anything else.
 
Capitalism is good!

Capitalism is good!

Our United States is the balance of greed against the good of society. Without both, nobody wins. Companies that don’t make a profit can’t employ us and then we can’t feed our families or buy there products. I’ve had friends and acquaintances forced to come to the US to buy the medical services they need while waiting for our Canadian neighbor to the north to get around to helping them. You just got to work within the system you’ve got.

No don’t beat me up because I like capitalism. Don't blame the system if the rest of us don't help our neighbors. Capitalism isn't good at helping the individual. For the most part, it's just a frame work for us to excell.
 
Originally Posted by spaceman spiff;
“Seems to me that corporate-controlled lefty lackey Clinton promised us a state heath system.... (always three fingers point back when it comes to partisan finger pointing) he he. …”

Point well taken, Clinton was far too corporate for me. At least he tried. Remember, even Nixon proposed a government run system during his administration.

“…Walgreens not big enough to get discounts? tsk tsk. there are 32 million canadians. The population of US is around 300 million. US Walgreens prescriptions is easily 4 or 5 times larger than the entire canadian heath system…”

Oh they’re big alright, big enough for Sam Walton to make in 2 weeks the amount one of his average workers makes in a lifetime. The Canadian system is a not-for-profit organization and doesn’t have a Sam to pay off. Also, in order to garner Canadian business, U.S. companies don’t add the cost of R&D, lobbying and advertising. Anyone who watches TV knows how much they spend on advertising. While liability is a factor, it effects the the doctors and other heath care providers more than the drug companies.


“…Sounded good when Kerry said it though didn't it? Yes, if only Kerry could be king of the universe…”

I hear’ya, but I’d settle for President.


”…one lawsuit hits merck and 8 percent is taken off the stocks in minutes. Still think the law suits don't have a huge effect?”

I didn’t claim they don’t. Remember that the stock dived after a report came out that suggested the firm may have ignored problems with one of its drugs. Not all lawsuits are frivolous or without merit. For an alternate view of the industry this is interesting; https://www.nybooks.com/articles/17244
 
A moment in a paralel universe where Kerry is prez.

A moment in a paralel universe where Kerry is prez.

Kerry: " Let the evil greedy companies ship to canada at big discount, and let the canadian healthcare system be fruitful and multiply 10 fold at Canadian taxpayer expence to service a forein non-tax paying population 10 times it size. Let the canadians ignore their own laws and controlls and ship for free because they are a not for profit and some how negotiate better than we do even though they are smaller but i say they are bigger, and i am the great Kerry so Skerry, so obviously it must be true, and the whole world must obey... "

"Let the Mexicans release all the people in jail for breaking prescription drug exporting laws. Let them abandon their laws and expand their system to give fat rich Americans cheaper diabetes treatments made by US companies and not substitute fake bug excrement and sugar pill copies. "

"Let the FDA pretend it is all OK"

"let the lawyers sue as much as they want even though they can no longer prove that the company they are suing actually made the stuff."

and he looked and saw and said it was good.

Then the big drug companies looked, laughed, and said "What discount?"

And the Canadians looked and said " why would we want to do any of that? eat poo you stupid twit eh."

The Mexicans said something extreemly rude about his mother..

that was fun. :D
 
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the really fun part

the really fun part

Hmm new information. Looks like we are all wrong about how this works. check this out... (from links above)

"when Canada “bargains” with Pfizer or Eli Lilly it implicitly threatens to ignore the American companies’ intellectual property rights. For example, if “negotiations” break down and the American company refuses to sell at the price Canada is asking, Canada reserves the right to ignore the drug patent and allow its domestic firms to produce a generic equivalent — a procedure called “compulsory licensing.” In effect Canada says: Give us your drugs at a price we dictate or we’ll ignore your patent and produce them ourselves."

think thats weird? slimey?

Here's the really weird and slimey part. Check out the prices on the most common US made drugs and their esentially pirated generics that are sold in canada. :eek: five out of the top six are being sold at higher prices than in the states! one of them is being sold at 800% mark up over the US price. Nice margins for a "not for profit" don't ya think? These guys make Mafia look benevolent!

Bush should have bombed Canada. :D
 
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Canadian Healthcare

Canadian Healthcare

My wife was born in Canada. Moved down here when she was 8 years old.
My mother in law is a Canadian...in that both she and my wife are still considerd Canadian citizens by Canadian law.
Both agree.....Canadian healthcare is cheap.......and sucks big time.

Long lines....long waits even for what we consider emergency needs.

I had rather have it high cost and available than cheap an unavailable.

I have read that Great Britain is sending patients to Germany because of lack of properly trained physicians.
Any British out there that can verify that? Also anyone needing an organ transplant is SOL if they are 55 years old or older....

Many Canadians are having to buy ( that's pay for) supplemental health insurance . Hmmmm? I thought it was free???


Did you know that American hospitals post a disclaimer that states NO ONE can be refused health care for what ever reason? I haven't been in one yet that didn't.....I was an EMT years ago.

It's just going to cost a lot to get it. Until you get the lawyers out of everyone's wallets.
 
A moment in a parallel universe where someone in over his head is prez…

"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed."

"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job"

“Harriet Miers is the most qualified person in the Country! …err well no, I really mean to say it’s Sam Alito, yeah that’s the ticket, he’s the most qualified!”

"British intelligence has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa…”

“I’m a uniter, not a divider!”

"My answer is bring 'em on." - "Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties."

…Wait a minute…. I was wrong; it only seems like a parallel universe!!


Originally Posted by spaceman spiff;
”Hmm new information. Looks like we are all wrong about how this works. check this out...”

"when Canada “bargains” with Pfizer or Eli Lilly it implicitly threatens to ignore the American companies’ intellectual property rights…”

”…think thats weird? slimey?”


Coming from an organization whose stated purpose is to “promote private alternatives to government regulation and control”, I wouldn’t expect they’d have anything good to say about a government run system.


Ray,

Every system has its down side and with a system like Canada has it’s only logical that the wealthier and conservative you are, the less you’ll like the system. But the majority likes it and as they have a 2 year longer lifespan than Americans, they’re doing something right. At least their system covers ALL its citizens.

Although confidence in the system is eroding, in large part due to the delays you mentioned, “Seven out of 10 are somewhat or very satisfied by quality of care, up slightly over two years.”
https://www.cbc.ca/stories/2002/05/27/health_survey020527
https://iamstella.blogspot.com/2005/10/blame-canada.html
 
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snipped some stuff...rcp Ray said:
https://www.cbc.ca/stories/2002/05/27/health_survey020527[/url]
https://iamstella.blogspot.com/2005/10/blame-canada.html

I grew up in rural Georgia....happy and did not know I was poor until I moved out of the community....(Drafted into the Army).
Now having said that....the vast majority of Canadians do not know they are "poor." The poorest American gets healthcare....if they don't give me names and dates and they, myself, and some lawyers I know will hit the lottery so to speak.
The "poor" that get this healthcare just can't afford the health insurance premiums. They don't buy insurance....the taxes taken out of my paycheck pay their insurance for them.
Like I said if you know someone that was denied or was given substandard healthcare because of their financial status, let me know. We will be in the money!
 
"I wouldn’t expect they’d have anything good to say about a government run system."


OK but so what? i wouldn't expect you to say anything nice about bush, yet the fact remains that quotes you present are true.

same thing with this issue.

The fact remains that canadian system does not offer the negotiating power of being big as you and Kerry have said. 'cause guess what? it isn't big.

Fact remains that they disregard intelectual property rights as it suits them.

Fact remains that in the top use drugs they gouge their own people with incredible mark up.

Fact remains that it is ileagal for canadian and mexican pharmacies to export, and that no one in the states has any authority to change that.

Fact remains that the drugs most comonly in use are more expensive in canada.

You can slam Bush all you want, makes no difference to me. I bought the Bushism calander and i enjoy it, even if i didn't it wont help your argument one bit. The re-importation "plan" is nothing but an empty ploy to posture for votes, and that is the only thing about it that was planed.
 
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spaceman spiff said:
Fact remains that they disregard intelectual property rights as it suits them.

We are hardly innocent of that charge here in the US. Our government has endorsed compulsory licensing by US companies many times in the past. Read all about it here. Seems a bit shortsighted to smear Canada (or anyone for that matter) for things we do ourselves.

spaceman spiff said:
Fact remains that the drugs most comonly in use are more expensive in canada.

This statement is misleading, as is the FDA report you quoted that asserts the same. Only generic drugs are more expensive in Canada. But none the less, if the Canadian government is in fact "gouging their own people" on drug prices, then why do we see so many accounts of Americans buying Canadian drugs? This is from the AARP, I can hardly see them making it up. After all, the AARP came out in favour of Bush's Medicaid bill.
 
I am going back to Brasil and start an e-commerce site for you guys to buy medication cheap, ok?
I get my blood pressure medicine for free down there and all my doctor visits too!
If I had to buy and comparing: one month's worth in Brasil $5 US . . .here $60 for the same kind. The brand name in Brasil still $15 US.
You have been robbed and cheated in the name of freedom.
Heron
 
I read the compulsory licensing article. I see the words compulsory license in there, but the situation seems vastly different. Have a hard time reading legalese but it looks like main thrust of the document is establishing guidelines for fees that a broadcast company that wanted to use your cable system would pay you.

" A party's liability under the compulsory license is based on the total revenue derived from all services that include any broadcast signals covered by the license; it cannot be based only on revenue from subscribers who actually receive the programming for which the fee is charged.(13) "

In the case of Canadian compulsory that was described. If you have a product they want, but they don't like your price, they say piss off. Copy your technology, ignore patents, become a competitor who had to pay nothing for development and clinical trials, advertizing...., and they pay you nothing.


I see the FDA claiming the majority of drugs and generics are cheaper here and AARP saying the opposite. Anyway to settle this?
 
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Originally Posted by spaceman spiff;
“"I wouldn’t expect they’d have anything good to say about a government run system."

OK but so what? i wouldn't expect you to say anything nice about bush, yet the fact remains that quotes you present are true.

same thing with this issue…”


So What?!? So facts are facts, no matter what the source? Don’t be so naive. If you want accurate information and facts you have to consider the source. If you believe ‘facts’ about the government run health care in Canada coming from a group who’s purpose is to promote private alternatives to government regulation and control, what else would you believe?

Would you believe the facts about the rights of gun ownership coming from the Brady Center?

Would you believe the facts about gun control coming from the N.R.A.?

Would you believe the facts about how old the earth is coming from Pat Robertson?

Would you believe the facts about the advantages of racial diversity coming from the KKK?


“…You can slam Bush all you want, makes no difference to me…”

Thanks, I’ll continue to fight for truth, justice and the American way.


“…The re-importation "plan" is nothing but an empty ploy to posture for votes, and that is the only thing about it that was planed…”

I agree, I was never a proponent of the re-importation plan.
 
"I agree, I was never a proponent of the re-importation plan."

OK, then we have very little to argue about.

as for your questions, if i was interested in gun controll i would read and consider information presented by brady center and NRA, compare the differences, and do a quick check of my own if it seems apropriate. i would not dismiss either point of view.

Seems bizzare that you would ignore anyone that promotes private control of industry over government control here in a very sucessfull capitalist democratic society more or less founded on that priciple, but what the hey, it's america, believe what you want.

So you don't like my source? How about this one confirming the Canadian intelectual rights policy?
Many more very similar to this one. Canadian articles complaining how the policy is driving researchers out of canada.... Abstracts describing actual court cases... its for real. my favorite one was an advertizement for a pharmacy that said somthing to the effect of "we can offer lower prices because patent rights are shorter in canada" :D LOL.


https://www.robic.ca/publications/Pdf/167E-TO.pdf

Low and slow said: " Thanks, I’ll continue to fight for truth, justice and the American way. "

If you decide to get a cape, mask, and tights, i suggest you change your name. Low 'n Slow doesn't work as super hero name.
 
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