Focke Achgelis Fa 330

kolibri282

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Dear all,

one of the earliest designs that might have evolved into a small
gyro for sun 'n fun flying was the Focke Achgelis Fa 330 Bachstelze.
This aircraft was designed to be used on submarines to increase
theire range of vision. After WW II it didn't gain much popularity
probably because there were to few people who owned a type IX
(Monsun) fleet submarine to tow it...;-)

German Sigurd Sauer has recently finished a replica. He was able to
get hold of a complete set of drawings and the result of his efforts
looks great, see for yourselfe (near the bottom of the page)

http://www.flugplatz-diepholz.de/aussstellungsprogramm-2008.html

When I turned to him for some information he sent me these beautiful
close up shots of the rotor head and the rotor and a few drawings.
All the pictures attached are copyright Sigurd Sauer.

One thing I was interested in was the airfoil used on the rotor.
Maybe someone could generate a set of lift/drag curves for the
profile. Beside the drawing I'll attach a small list of profile
offset data. One thing that's puzzeling me is the rotational speed
of the rotor. Sigurd Sauer told me that the aircraft would lift
off at 150 rrpm and 200 rrpm would be reached in a dive.
My little gyro program predicts the rotational rate to be close to
200 rrpm for normal operation and that same value is calculated by
Jukka Tervamaekis gyro design program. I'm really looking forward
to comments from the forum on that question.

Anyway Sigurd Sauer has also talked to the flight instructor who
trained the german pilots on the Fa 330 and the two hope to take
to the air this spring. Let's keep our fingers crossed!

Cheers,


Juergen


PS: If you want to contact Sigurd Sauer you will probably have as
litte success via e-mail as I had, though he has a home page here:

http://www.modellbau-sauer.de/

Sigurd seems to have a look at his e-mail every other year or so,
therefor you may want to write a letter (yeah, that's a sheet of
paper you write words on and put it in a small white pouche...
these were once called envelope...and don't forget to put a small
picture on the envolpe with numbers on it...;-)

PPS: I will post a link to this thread in the design forum because
it seems to fit there as well
 

kolibri282

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Trying to upload pictures..

Trying to upload pictures..

For some reason my first attempt to upload the pics was not successful..
here's another go, as I said above all pictures are copyright Sigurd Sauer.
 

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kolibri282

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Kai,
Sigurds project is indeed very impressive and I hoped that some people in the forum might be interested to learn about it. If you arrange to meet Sigurd in Petersfehn Duesseldorf would be on the way and you are more than welcome to drop in (we might have a beer in the Altstadt and talk gyros, my own littel project is to design a rotor that is controlled by trailing edge flaps, currently I am working on the mechanical design of a 1:5 model)

Cheers,

Juergen
 

C. Beaty

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Scan from: “Cierva Autogiros” by Peter W. Brooks.

I also have a short movie clip of this machine in flight. Somewhere.
 

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Gyro_Kai

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Kai,
Sigurds project is indeed very impressive and I hoped that some people in the forum might be interested to learn about it. If you arrange to meet Sigurd in Petersfehn Duesseldorf would be on the way and you are more than welcome to drop in (we might have a beer in the Altstadt and talk gyros, my own littel project is to design a rotor that is controlled by trailing edge flaps, currently I am working on the mechanical design of a 1:5 model)

Cheers,

Juergen
Sounds great. I'll contact you in Jan, I have a project over the turn of the year and will be overly busy.

Kai.
 

C. Beaty

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The clip I have, Simon, was recorded from the History channel a number of years ago. There are some shots of pilot training at a wind tunnel in France.

VHS tape, not of the highest quality.
 

kolibri282

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I just could not resist to add this one



Bensen's design
The Bensen Gyrocopter was adapted directly from the Hafner Rotochute and Focke-Achgelis Fa 330A-1 "Bachstelze" autogiros of World War II. Bensen's adaptation, termed Gyrocopter, was available in three versions, B-6, B-7 and B-8. All three were designed in both unpowered and powered forms.
from here

http://www.billdoll.com/ref/ideas/biz/tt/trans/air/gyro.html

Cheers,

Juergen
 

kolibri282

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EI-GYRO

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I love the clever way the fuselage section folded up.
Push-rod pitch control, closed loop roll control,fully-collapsible mast, fold up skids,
detachable tail feathers, rotor jettison, parachute extraction etc., etc..

Just so many clever ideas.
 

aroscruz

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May be there is only pitch and rudder control?
I cannot see bank control
 

kolibri282

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Is that a lawnmower type pull-rope pre-rotator
Yes, it is. The rope ran to a hand cranked pulley at the rail at the rear conning tower platform ('Wintergarten').

May be there is only pitch and rudder control
I think Fergus is right:
Push-rod pitch control, closed loop roll control
The wire can be seen in the third pic in post #2. Unfortunately I don't have a pic showing how lateral tilt is actuated.
 

SandL

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3 found

3 found

I saw a complete original at the science museum large item storage facility at Wroughton in the UK (near Swindon in Wiltshire)
I have recently seen a complete one at the RAF museum at Cosford and there may be one at the helicopter museum at Weston-super-mere
and
according to this Wikipedia there is one in the USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke_Achgelis_Fa_330

so maybe you could contact Cosford and ask for detailed photographs.
 

Jean Claude

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About 500 h (FW + ultra light)
One thing that's puzzeling me is the rotational speed
of the rotor. Sigurd Sauer told me that the aircraft would lift
off at 150 rrpm and 200 rrpm would be reached in a dive.
My little gyro program predicts the rotational rate to be close to
200 rrpm for normal operation and that same value is calculated by
Jukka Tervamaekis gyro design program. I'm really looking forward
to comments from the forum on that question.
Here, my program predicts for a pitch setting of 4,5°:
At least 33 km/h, 188 rpm , with horizontal cable
At least 42 km/h, 240 rpm, with 35° cable
With 45° and 80 km/h, 218 t/mn
80 km/h is near the autorotation limit to this pitch setting and this rotor thrust .(mu = 0,26)
Perhaps dynamics twist can change these values

[/QUOTE]
 

kolibri282

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Dear Jean Claude,

unfortunately I have only seen this post today, it has somehow escaped my attention. I hope to add a tow cable to my model some time this year. At that point your sample calculation will be very useful to check my results.

Thank you for this very detailed calculation!


@SandL
helicopter museum at Weston-super-Mare
I had visited Weston about five or six years ago, they hadn't a Fa-330 at that time. I could actually contact Sigurd Sauer regarding this question, hope l'll get around to it.



Cheers,

Juergen
 
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