Flying below at or below minimum airspeed, and Fixed wing vs. Rotorcraft Stalls

John,

I too get "flamed" a lot of times when I post. I fight human nature and try to never let it become personal, sometimes unsuccessfully. Like you, one of my motives when I post is to help folks. I have been told dozens of times that I have a "gift" at understanding and explaining complicated things in an easy to understand way.

That supposed "gift" gets me in a lot of stew on here. Don't withdraw. Just take the VALID criticisms, act on them, and let the rest of the junk blow away.

One Word of Advice...Read
51L%2BZAJhzYL.jpg

This book should be REQUIRED, TESTED reading for all pilots of all types of aircraft BEFORE taking their first flying lessons. The laws of physics never change and gyros, airplanes, and blimps ALL are subject to them. This book peels back the B.S. that usually gets people in arguments and reveals the truth.

As I said, it should be testable material on all FAA Writtens.
 
Bryan,

Thanks for posting that classic book. My copy is in a storage locker but i used to re-read it at least once a year during my first half dozen years of flying.

Rob
 
John: I respect your enthusiam, drive, and friendliness to all.

It seems out of character for you to think you've been told to shut up and fly, as well as your thinking that everyone is jumping all over you.

Your knowledge of all things airplane and their flight is huge. Your gyro knowledge is still to grow quite a bit to match your fixed-wing expertise. Please don't go down the path that some do here in the past and think you have been ganged up on and that you are "outta here"!
John: You've read my thoughts gyro-related. I'm going to add something else. I have relatives that are/were heavy, heavy smokers. They lived/live in the SF bay area.Virtually all my cousins there took up the nasty habit when they were young. Their parents were terrible examples and all but one of them became smokers.

Seven of them died from cancer and smoking-related diseases. Before those died, those had severe health issues. I truly believe smoking stresses the human body in many ways, even more than scientists can prove w/ research. My cousins left alive have all finally quit smoking. The last one was the most die-hard smoker and literally yelled at anyone of her family that tried to get her to kick the nasty habit. After she had lost her father, mother, and three brothers to lung cancer and emphisema (sp?), she came to her senses.

I also have observed several relatively-young co-workers who were heavy smokers in the past several years get diagnosed with major cancer growths, start aggressive treatments, and some then get struck down by strokes, and are gone shortly thereafter. Some older co-workers that were also heavy smokers battle cancer, think they have it beat, and then it roars back, cutting them down this time. The non-smoking co-workers don't seem to have nearly the severe health issues.

You know in your heart what this is about.

I can't prove that you have health problems because of your cigarette habit.

But the facts are there about the majority of smokers having other health issues and their health usually improves when they give up the tar and other chemicals that are burnt in each cancer-stick.

My wish is that you can join guys in our rotorcraft world that have quit and have been glad they did, like Dave Bacon, Mike Groshans, Paul Plack, Ben Souisa, Gilbert Sherperd (Bensen flyer from Oregon that comes to El Mirage), and others.

I believe you are a god-send to ignite the west coast into a gyro-mecca of training and flying. We need you to be in good health to finish your work!

If you are offended by what I have written here, so be it.

I will still respect you for all your good character traits and projects you want to accomplish. And, I will still think of you as a friend.

If you aren't offended, so much for the better.

I can't wait to see you flying solo in a gyroplane!
If you are excited about things now, when you solo, you probably will be bouncing off any wall you see, and never shut up about it!

John, I hope Keven's message to you hasn't turned you off. I'm guessing your time in the hospital has gotten you to give up cigarettes, you said this was a wake-up call? Don't take offense to your friends relaying to you what you've been doing to your self with this habit. I was amazed at how many smokers there were at the Wrens fly-in. North Carolina was well represented. Keven should become your new best friend, he didn't sugar coat it. I couldn't have said it better. We love you john, stay healthy.
 
John, Home Boy, (Orinda), hang in there, sometimes a little rain must fall, seams like you've had a lot lately, keep a stiff upper lip, when things get rough, the tough get going.
I know I get training and much more flight time starting next month and be flying every day, it never rain here.
I'll be allowed to give gyroplane advice soon.
 
John: I respect your enthusiam, drive, and friendliness to all.

It seems out of character for you to think you've been told to shut up and fly, as well as your thinking that everyone is jumping all over you.

Your knowledge of all things airplane and their flight is huge. Your gyro knowledge is still to grow quite a bit to match your fixed-wing expertise. Please don't go down the path that some do here in the past and think you have been ganged up on and that you are "outta here"!

I believe that most of those who have left this forum over the years in a huff, and also most of the few that have been banned from this forum have been because of their immaturity to interact well with the majority of forum members as well as the moderators and the owner of this forum.

You don't seem to fit that mold.

I am aware of the Wolverine forum and have visited ocasionally to attempt to learn from the rotorcraft knowledge there. While there is some of that there, such as Gabor's build, most of the comments are non-rotorcraft related, and some are negative comments directed towards this forum.

Unfortunately, one poster there thinks repeatedly posting three words ad naseum (two of which are consider impolite and extremely unpleasant expressions for most of civilized society) is something worthwhile for all to read.

Flying aircraft is such a thrill! Dont get bent out of shape because some of your friends suggest you get more gyro-flying experience and learn more about flying the poor-man's helicopter. You have many talents. Don't jump to conclusions that appear to me are incorrect about people telling you to shut up, or basically to go away and get a lot of gyro flying experience before you can post again.

You have so much going for you and also so much going on in your life. You are attempting to do a heck of a lot of innovative things to create a huge training center in California for gyros. It still amazes me that in the state of California doesn't have any active gyro CFI's that train in experimental gyros!

I believe Jon (Starks?) will train in either the Air & Space 18A or McCulloch J-2 certified gyros up around San Jose. But, for the population and economy of California, there should be a huge demand for it!

John: You've read my thoughts gyro-related. I'm going to add something else. I have relatives that are/were heavy, heavy smokers. They lived/live in the SF bay area.Virtually all my cousins there took up the nasty habit when they were young. Their parents were terrible examples and all but one of them became smokers.

Seven of them died from cancer and smoking-related diseases. Before those died, those had severe health issues. I truly believe smoking stresses the human body in many ways, even more than scientists can prove w/ research. My cousins left alive have all finally quit smoking. The last one was the most die-hard smoker and literally yelled at anyone of her family that tried to get her to kick the nasty habit. After she had lost her father, mother, and three brothers to lung cancer and emphisema (sp?), she came to her senses.

I also have observed several relatively-young co-workers who were heavy smokers in the past several years get diagnosed with major cancer growths, start aggressive treatments, and some then get struck down by strokes, and are gone shortly thereafter. Some older co-workers that were also heavy smokers battle cancer, think they have it beat, and then it roars back, cutting them down this time. The non-smoking co-workers don't seem to have nearly the severe health issues.

You know in your heart what this is about.

I can't prove that you have health problems because of your cigarette habit.

But the facts are there about the majority of smokers having other health issues and their health usually improves when they give up the tar and other chemicals that are burnt in each cancer-stick.

My wish is that you can join guys in our rotorcraft world that have quit and have been glad they did, like Dave Bacon, Mike Groshans, Paul Plack, Ben Souisa, Gilbert Sherperd (Bensen flyer from Oregon that comes to El Mirage), and others.

I believe you are a god-send to ignite the west coast into a gyro-mecca of training and flying. We need you to be in good health to finish your work!

If you are offended by what I have written here, so be it.

I will still respect you for all your good character traits and projects you want to accomplish. And, I will still think of you as a friend.

If you aren't offended, so much for the better.

I can't wait to see you flying solo in a gyroplane!
If you are excited about things now, when you solo, you probably will be bouncing off any wall you see, and never shut up about it!
You are a good person and a GOOD FRIEND. I appreciate you and you advice more than you know.

Good news the only benefit of being in a hospital is they do not let you smoke in the room and I would not ware the patch as it's just more drugs so I quite. Throwing up 12 to 18 hours a day is not conducive to being outside in public view while doing so.
Until I figured out how to eat and drink life sucked and I was thinking you really got to be tough to grow old.

I now know what it is like to be a ant eater with a very sparse trail of ant to eat. But I've gained 16 lbs in less that 14 days and feel GREAT for the 1st time in 4 years.

The 1st time I really wanted a cigarette is only after the Vance attack!

But still not smoking, not sure I've quite for good but so far I'm ALL IN!
 
As I already posted on your variable pitch prop thread.

As I already posted on your variable pitch prop thread.

I know I get training and much more flight time starting next month and be flying every day, it never rain here.
I'll be allowed to give gyroplane advice soon.

Please give it a rest John.

You have my permission to post whatever you want.

You never did need it.

I already posted permission for you to post whatever you want on your variable pitch prop thread.

Vance
 
Please give it a rest John.

You have my permission to post whatever you want.

You never did need it.

I already posted permission for you to post whatever you want on your variable pitch prop thread.

Vance

I'm really sorry then Vance I'm so hurt that I must have missed it!
 
"Basically shut up and and go fly away from all of them? If it's helping no one what is the point!"
Hava good feed of cement John, then come back swingin.
You should never expect to make everyone happy.

Wot your attemptn to do is VERY involved, and wot Vance n co are do,n is offering responcable criticism of your posts, not your aim.

Blanket explanations can be very dangerous.
No need to reply Vance says I can give advice again! Yippee I'm back!
I will not TEACH I promise until I have so much more time. I would like help re-writing my opinion until they are correct.
 
Thank you Brian and I'll check out the Book!
 
Lift is the force generated by the wings to support the aircraft in a certain flight attitude, this force is perpendicular to the oncoming air and a line that passes through the wing tips. If an aircraft flies at 300 km/h in a circle with a radius of 708 m the centrifugal acceleration is 9.81 m/s² which is the gravity of the earth or one g. This acceleration adds up to earth gravity which is still pointing downwards to a total force of square root of two times g (times mass of the aircraft). The wings generate the force in the opposite direction which has to have the same magnitude to assure a steady turn. For this lift force to lay exactly opposite the total acceleration force the aircraft has to fly at a bank angle of 45° and the total lift is 70% larger than in straight and level flight. The purpose of the control surfaces is to assure that the aircraft is flying at the attitude required for the wings to generate that force. By the way the extra lift required is the reason why you have to add power in a turn if you don't want to lose height.

Generally I think that in a discussion time spent flying an aircraft has no value in itself, it should be reflected in better arguments and a more clear sighted explanation of phenomena. Many discussions in this forum have been focused on helping all to better understand the subject of the discussion, this should remain the first and foremost goal of any argument
Thank you so much this is exactly what we are looking for!
 
John, I hope Keven's message to you hasn't turned you off. I'm guessing your time in the hospital has gotten you to give up cigarettes, you said this was a wake-up call? Don't take offense to your friends relaying to you what you've been doing to your self with this habit. I was amazed at how many smokers there were at the Wrens fly-in. North Carolina was well represented. Keven should become your new best friend, he didn't sugar coat it. I couldn't have said it better. We love you john, stay healthy.
No I read it with all the sincerity and love that is Kevin nature!
You Both Rock and are food friends!
 
In the same spirit of 'trying to help others who follow us' Jon, did you get the book and disc I sent you back in September? Just wondered :)
 
In the same spirit of 'trying to help others who follow us' Jon, did you get the book and disc I sent you back in September? Just wondered :)
Yes I did and we are going to use it in installments. It is full of great information Thank you Shirley so much, I'll contact the editor and see when.:noidea:

PS:
It will also be on the PRA31.org website too that we are testing right now and be up in February!
 
?

?

No I read it with all the sincerity and love that is Kevin nature!
You Both Rock and are food friends!

OK, I give...I don't claim to be the sharpest pencil in the drawer...What is a "food friend"?


And, "But still not smoking, not sure I've quite for good but so far I'm ALL IN!"

If you're not sure you've "quit" for good, then you are leaving the tobacco door open to pass back into that room.
 
OK, I give...I don't claim to be the sharpest pencil in the drawer...What is a "food friend"?


And, "But still not smoking, not sure I've quite for good but so far I'm ALL IN!"

If you're not sure you've "quit" for good, then you are leaving the tobacco door open to pass back into that room.

Oops change the f to a 'g' Good Friend!
With my new eating program and see how that would be VERY confusing!

That's funny!
 
Lift always lifts weight. Weight changes, change the lift required. In most cases lift equals weight. In a turn more lift is needed on the "effective" flight surfaces.

And oddly enough ... in straight climbing flight, lift is less than weight.
 
Lift always lifts weight. Weight changes, change the lift required. In most cases lift equals weight. In a turn more lift is needed on the "effective" flight surfaces.

And oddly enough ... in straight climbing flight, lift is less than weight.
Thank you so much Tom!

I'm copy pasting all the NEW commenst into a jumbled mess and re-write this.

Also you guys have pointed out hard to mix FW with Gyroplanes information.

When I read it again just now it the FW distracts from understanding solely gryoplane and they could get mixed up.

Let wait for me add Chuck, Doug's, and all the rest of your comments and I'll take the FW portion out and move where it will be in a separate section with only comparisons.

The pro's may not have as much to correct if we start out with just gyroplanes?

Thank you this is the last subject I think the presentation is missing and it will help others if I can get some help correcting as I added everything I know.
 
You are a good person and a GOOD FRIEND. I appreciate you and you advice more than you know.

Good news the only benefit of being in a hospital is they do not let you smoke in the room and I would not ware the patch as it's just more drugs so I quite. Throwing up 12 to 18 hours a day is not conducive to being outside in public view while doing so.
Until I figured out how to eat and drink life sucked and I was thinking you really got to be tough to grow old.

I now know what it is like to be a ant eater with a very sparse trail of ant to eat. But I've gained 16 lbs in less that 14 days and feel GREAT for the 1st time in 4 years.

The 1st time I really wanted a cigarette is only after the Vance attack!

But still not smoking, not sure I've quite for good but so far I'm ALL IN!

John, you need to hear this as a friend who has quit... and knows it was absolutely the best health decision of his entire 60+ years life...

If I catch you puffin on tobacco... I am gonna kick your F-in butt... understand... :cool:

Seriously... I started smoking at age 14... and quit at 39. It is a long story... the point is: It was and remains the one most important health choice I ever made (the second is eating healthy).

Hang in there without the cancer sticks guy... you will be glad you did. If something gets under your skin... you can pig out... you said you wanted to gain weight anyhow... :party:
Seriously... whatever works to keep oneself away from those little slices of death... please do it!

All my best to a fellow 'quitter'... :welcome:
 
John,

I too get "flamed" a lot of times when I post. I fight human nature and try to never let it become personal, sometimes unsuccessfully. Like you, one of my motives when I post is to help folks. I have been told dozens of times that I have a "gift" at understanding and explaining complicated things in an easy to understand way.

That supposed "gift" gets me in a lot of stew on here. Don't withdraw. Just take the VALID criticisms, act on them, and let the rest of the junk blow away.

One Word of Advice...Read
51L%2BZAJhzYL.jpg

This book should be REQUIRED, TESTED reading for all pilots of all types of aircraft BEFORE taking their first flying lessons. The laws of physics never change and gyros, airplanes, and blimps ALL are subject to them. This book peels back the B.S. that usually gets people in arguments and reveals the truth.

As I said, it should be testable material on all FAA Writtens.

I read that book when I was a teen.... it set the 'curiosity' within my head... It was a decade later when I learned to fly...

THX for referencing it... I need to dig it out and read it again!
 
Also you guys have pointed out hard to mix FW with Gyroplanes information.

I went through a stage of getting the subtle details and nuances confused... and a lot of folks at RWF were patient yet firm with me about it.

It is amazing how the human mind works... one can understand what the truth is... yet the mind will always go back to what is familiar... and confuse the details.

It will be truly enlightening to watch you (John) as you get used to flying a gyro, to talk about the subtle differences and how they are similar yet different. The posting you probably will do on this will be fun to read... albeit I suspect there will be lots of 'discussion', some of what will be 'passionate'... :D :flame: :argue: :)
 
Top