Fatal - N419LB Cavalon OK

Speaking of the Pal-V, EASA are looking for comments to this document where they are requesting input for the training and technical requirements for EASA gyroplane licenses and regulations regarding non-commercial operation ( everything other than public transport) of gyroplanes.

 
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Globally, the gyroplane training industry started in 2013 a collaboration project known as ‘The International Association of Professional Gyroplane Training (IAPGT)’ 18. There are currently 4 579 members (pilots and flight instructors) from 120 countries. The IAPGT has strongly supported the development of the FCL requirements
Really? I am stopping flying!
 
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helipaddy & Philbennett
I tried to read the easa document but before fell asleep I didn't see anything about low g and bunting risks nor behind the curve take off, did I miss it????
Mike G
 
I’ll take a read tonight Mike although I find it incredible that a paid consultant of PalV has influenced the fact find doc so much. The biggest problem with gyroplane regulation and associated landscape is that the regulator has little knowledge or independent resource to assist. This will become a self serving shambles and easa will get what it deserves tbh.
 
I’ll take a read tonight Mike although I find it incredible that a paid consultant of PalV has influenced the fact find doc so much. The biggest problem with gyroplane regulation and associated landscape is that the regulator has little knowledge or independent resource to assist. This will become a self serving shambles and easa will get what it deserves tbh.
This. They'll disappear up their own backsides eventually.
 
Really? I am stopping flying!
Phil so if we don’t subscribe to this fancy cartoon and App driven training I was wondering if we should then stop teaching? I doubt fancy class room aids and various you tube videos as well as being able to track a student log book via some app or to be reminded to put out the lights off when we leave the building is replacing actual in cockpit stick time and one on one debate on a student is now a thing of the past…? Gyropedia while very neatly packaged can never replace stick time and hard discussion in a class wherein a student gets to discuss the lesson and understand the progress/ mistakes? it seems more intent on box ticking IMO ?
stick on white board magnets are a nice to have does not mean I can’t sketch a drawing on a white board and explain it then go and demonstrate it …. I’m just to old for PC shit I also don’t have an app to remind me to take a pee…..
 
Hey Greg - TBH [sorry, to be honest] my comment was less about the functionality of that resource than it was about the utter nonsense that EASA puked up which is a misdirection. IAPGT is a commercial endeavour run by one man, for one man. Then to give it some credibility the figure of 4500 is quoted as if the global gyroplane great and the good have come together in a benevolent fashion to create a great movement.

You bring up the content and here is my honestly held view on IAPGT. In the main it is a noble endeavour. It puts structure into something where before not much existed. Gyroplanes are a niche and likely remain a niche and to be fair before this concept there wasn't much standardisation of training - which is positive because that ensures that Student pilot Bloggs will achieve [or is likely to achieve] the same standard of piloting if he hails from North, South, East or West.

If I criticise IAPGT its because of the constant whiff of nonsense [I highlight a view in paragraph 1], the lack of data protection, the poor quality control of updates, in some cases the poor quality of the view expressed, the focus on box tick over substance and the way [in the UK at least] the empire building becomes less about the quality of training and more about the protection of the commercial empire.
 
helipaddy & Philbennett
I tried to read the easa document but before fell asleep I didn't see anything about low g and bunting risks nor behind the curve take off, did I miss it????
Mike G
Yeah will be covered Mike from page 16 onwards. Effectively the EASA doc mirrors a UK PPL(G).
 
Phil so if we don’t subscribe to this fancy cartoon and App driven training I was wondering if we should then stop teaching? I doubt fancy class room aids and various you tube videos as well as being able to track a student log book via some app or to be reminded to put out the lights off when we leave the building is replacing actual in cockpit stick time and one on one debate on a student is now a thing of the past…? Gyropedia while very neatly packaged can never replace stick time and hard discussion in a class wherein a student gets to discuss the lesson and understand the progress/ mistakes? it seems more intent on box ticking IMO ?
stick on white board magnets are a nice to have does not mean I can’t sketch a drawing on a white board and explain it then go and demonstrate it …. I’m just to old for PC shit I also don’t have an app to remind me to take a pee…..

Greg, I can only say that I was trained (2017-19) by an IAPGT instructor (who, if my antennae are functioning as normal, will, in the fullness of time, become the next Chairman of the IAPGT)

My observations were, and still are:-

a) he was never beholden to Gyropedia, and acknowledged its deficiencies, while giving it credit as a "work in progress" that, by dint of instructor meetings and democratic feedback, should iteratively improve training standards overall, over time.
We used Gyropedia, but in NO WAY, did it robotically "drive" the training. On the contrary, it was far more of a ball-ache for the instructor, after training me the way he wanted/thought fit for me, to then map that personal training back on to the Gyropedia idealised schedule.
We certainly did not follow at all Gyropedia Lesson 1, Lesson 2, Lesson 3...etc. religiously. It was the very opposite, but made sense both to me, as student, and the instructor, since I could monitor and understand this variation by viewing and understanding Gyropedia in the round.

b) There never was any notion of Gyropedia "replacing actual in cockpit stick time". NO WAY.
In fact, I often got a little frustrated, as my Gyropedia % trained number seemed (imho) to be running ahead of my instructor's willingness to consider me ready for solo...
I guess in most jurisdictions the responsibility is highly personal to the instructor, and a "defence" such as... "but computer said..." would be laughed out of court. Hence no sane instructor would view Gyropedia as anything other than an administrative tool, and a useful one at that. The buck always stops with the instructor, and his experience and intuition to say GO/NO-GO on the day, outside anything any computer may say.

c) Far from "one on one debate on a student is now a thing of the past", NO WAY.
I had enjoyable and extended discussions (1+ hour) with my instructor after various lessons, and occasionally gave him valid points, which he was gracious enough to acknowledge, and ruminate on, and eventually action for change in Gyropedia...
 
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