Fatal - Magni M24 Plus N590DM, Cape Girardeau Regional Airport, Missouri, USA 22 MAY 2022

It’s not possible to fall over on the stick in the Magni M24 when I tried it.
I flew my grandson last week in my M24 915 and was showing him how very little movement of the stick it takes to bank or pitch the aircraft. Now assume the stick is in your right hand as it would be in flight and your left hand is on the throttle. Now, let me interject that I spent 4 yrs working in an Emergency Room while in college and many more years in Law Enforcement (as a first responder). I witnessed many people die, have stokes, seize, pass out, have heart attacks, panic attacks, hyper ventilate... the list is long. While Paul Salmon would be an expert in this as an ER Doc and M24 CFI, I can, with confidence, tell you that it is possible the pilot had a medical event that caused the stick to go full forward and/or the throttle, or both. Not exactly "fall" on the stick but with the same results. I love the Magni, I believe it to be the best in the gyro world in regards to safe flight, but things happen when pilots are in the cockpit. It will be good for all of us to get the final report.
 
I'm not sure about the M24, but I have no trim in the system just when I am taking off. If you don't have any trim on, the stick will tend to go forward unless you actively hold it back.
That said, I'd expect him to have trimmed it a bit before levelling out, but it's easy to forget things, especially for a new gyro pilot, and especially if something major is distracting you.
I too am a big Magni fan, obvs.
 
I'm not sure about the M24, but I have no trim in the system just when I am taking off. If you don't have any trim on, the stick will tend to go forward unless you actively hold it back.
That said, I'd expect him to have trimmed it a bit before levelling out, but it's easy to forget things, especially for a new gyro pilot, and especially if something major is distracting you.
I too am a big Magni fan, obvs.
The M24 pre-take-off checklist calls for full forward trim (to get green light) before taxi/pre-rotate/takeoff, than after reaching 70kts or so and a few hundred feet, begin to trim the stick back to relieve pressure and get neutral stick as power is also reduced. If a M24 pilot does not trim back after take-off, the stick will have significant forward force.
 
It’s not possible to fall over on the stick in the Magni M24 when I tried it.
I am a big fan of 4 point seat belts. I notice many second-hand Magni gyros for sale in Europe are not fitted with 4-point seat belts and only have lap seat belts. The 4 point seat belt would probably prevent a medically stricken pilot from slumping forward onto the stick or other controls. Full 5-point seatbelts would be better.
 
I am a big fan of 4 point seat belts. I notice many second-hand Magni gyros for sale in Europe are not fitted with 4-point seat belts and only have lap seat belts. The 4 point seat belt would probably prevent a medically stricken pilot from slumping forward onto the stick or other controls. Full 5-point seatbelts would be better.
So let me get my head around this …he does not fall on the stick because of the restraint ….would the outcome have been significantly different ?
 
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Actually, that is a good point Greg. Probably same outcome assuming he had some medical issue… We had trim on for level flight when experimenting with only lap belts. So if trim was forward and let go or lost control of stick than that might have caused it. Thanks Heliswede and all for the additional insight.

Regarding belts, 4 point is an option and the thinking is the lap belts should be sufficient for normal near zero landing speeds. But of course normal isn’t what typically happens with accidents. I would prefer 4 point too. Oh I have to put do not resuscitate if burnt too in my advanced medical directives. That would suck.
 
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So let me get my head around this …he does not fall on the stick because of the restraint ….would the outcome have been significantly different ?
Hi Greg,
I don't know the root cause of this accident or if it was a medical emergency in the case of this unfortunate pilot, nor do I know if he was wearing a 4-point seat belt. If it was such a medical issue, and if a trained co-pilot was on the flight, 4-point seat belts could prevent an incapacitated pilot or passenger from causing problems for the free movement of the controls. If only, perhaps......

I know from my own experience that a lap seat belt is next to useless in any emergency. When I totalled my gyro, I was wearing only a lap seat belt. Luckily, my passenger was wearing a 4-point seat belt and he escaped without a scratch. I ended up with several fractures in my arm, but still managed to walk away. When I have enough funds for another gyro, it will have 4-point seat belts in both seats.

Unfortunately, 4-point seat belts do not save pilots from risky decisions, but their use might lessen the consequences.
 
I just bought a pair of 4pt. racing harnesses from Ebay. I wasn't expecting much for $59 (For both!) But they are very nice, a lot better than I expected...
 
The tricky part is not buying the harnesses, it's finding appropriate (strong enough) attachment points for the shoulder belts...
Tyger,
You are correct. Some gyros fitted only with lap belts can be very difficult to retrofit with 4-point seat belts.
 
I know from my own experience that a lap seat belt is next to useless in any emergency. When I totalled my gyro, I was wearing only a lap seat belt. Luckily, my passenger was wearing a 4-point seat belt and he escaped without a scratch. I ended up with several fractures in my arm, but still managed to walk away.
I suggest that, far from being "next to useless", the lap belt probably prevented you from being thrown from the aircraft, which could obviously have been catastrophic.
You imply that a 4-point restraint would have prevented your arm from being broken. Can you explain how it might have done so?
 
The primary value of a lap belt is to keep occupants from being ejected. Shoulder harnesses protect you from secondary collisions with cockpit structures. 5th straps prevent "submarining" from under the other four straps.
My Husky had 5 point belts, and worked very well in my accident. My left hand/arm was sore from hitting the front side bar on left side of wind shield, but I suspect it might have been much worse if I didn’t have the chest straps holding me to the back of the chair…My chest where the straps were was sore after the accident too.
 
I suggest that, far from being "next to useless", the lap belt probably prevented you from being thrown from the aircraft, which could obviously have been catastrophic.
You imply that a 4-point restraint would have prevented your arm from being broken. Can you explain how it might have done so?
Hi Tyger,
My passenger in the rear seat escaped without a scratch in my crash. I whacked my right shoulder, arm and head on the ground and my cheat on the dash and was thrown to the other side when the gyro tumbled, hitting my left shoulder on the ground where we came rest. If I had the benefit of a 4-point seat belt, I would not have been thrown beyond the hull of the gyro and might have avoided breaking my arm. The 4-point seat belt my rear passenger was using kept him within the confines of the gyro hull and he collided with nothing and avoided injury. I have heard several stories of pilots in fixed wing incidents who attribute their walking away from wrecks to the use of 4-point seat belts.

I fully agree with WaspAir's point about the risk of "submarining out of the 4-point seat belt. The 4-point seat belt is still a good next best choice.

When I get a chance I will do a separate post on how my accident happened and the why's.
John.
 
John - Got distracted with passenger or forgot to follow check list? Just speculating in advance. Very interested in how it happened so can learn from it. Dave
 
I did a lic renewal for a client in his MTO the front has a shoulder harnes that attaches to the glass fibre body construction and rear passenger screen frame, IMO if that Auto Gyro took a hard knock that useless shoulder harness will take the pilot and the windscreen frame along to the impact point.
The rear seatbelt set up is attached to the mast ( that will bend easily IMO) shoulder and seat belts need to be attached with integrity to add value and support, in the case of the Auto Gyro MTO I think they are just there to tick a box and look pretty …and then they go and put automotive release mechanisms in? But hey in the case of the MTO they have BcarT 🤪
 
I did a lic renewal for a client in his MTO the front has a shoulder harnes that attaches to the glass fibre body construction and rear passenger screen frame, IMO if that Auto Gyro took a hard knock that useless shoulder harness will take the pilot and the windscreen frame along to the impact point.
The rear seatbelt set up is attached to the mast ( that will bend easily IMO) shoulder and seat belts need to be attached with integrity to add value and support, in the case of the Auto Gyro MTO I think they are just there to tick a box and look pretty …and then they go and put automotive release mechanisms in? But hey in the case of the MTO they have BcarT 🤪

BCAR does not necessitate a shoulder harness. In tandem light aircraft like trikes (WSC) BCAR Sec S also does not require shoulder harness for front seat either. Same with ASTM standards. The composite seat will take away 2 Gs of forward to break the movement. But this is the same for ELA and same for AR-1 and it's the same in trikes. It's not just MTO
 
BCAR does not necessitate a shoulder harness. In tandem light aircraft like trikes (WSC) BCAR Sec S also does not require shoulder harness for front seat either. Same with ASTM standards. The composite seat will take away 2 Gs of forward to break the movement. But this is the same for ELA and same for AR-1 and it's the same in trikes. It's not just MTO
I am not questioning the value of BcarT …I’m highlighting how the representative of AG who has a rather bombastic way of telling us his product is superior in every way ….. and that no other gyro can compete …when I took him to task on that comment and how many gyroplanes his rated on to make that rather interesting comment he replied no I only fly auto gyro all others are dangerous ….as you can imagine I schooled him …sorry for the thread drift
 
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