Fatal - Magni M24 Plus N590DM, Cape Girardeau Regional Airport, Missouri, USA 22 MAY 2022

BEN S

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I've said my piece before so I won't harp on it, but please can we stop with the "medical emergency" hopium crap?
He didn't say " Tower, I am having a heart attack". How much time elapsed between the declaration and the catastrophic event?
If he had the wherewithal and the time to declare an emergency, he damn sure had the time to key the mike and say "I need an ambulance"

Medical Emergency should be the VERY LAST check off on an unknown accident cause.
 

Tyger

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Does anyone know exactly what he did say to the tower?
And yes, how much time did elapse after he told the tower he wanted to return?
So many questions; I hope NTSB will be able to answer them in the fullness of time.
 

Philbennett

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Just a word on the 915 motor, its power delivery is very linear and getting into trouble because of the 915 [if that is a fear / thought / causal or contributory] is less about the 915 motor characteristics than it is about people unfamiliar and being caught up in a mentality that is in part promoted by marketing where they think a gyroplane and the "flying like a gyro pilot" requires one to make every climb out aggressive and every landing a spot landing eroding margins.
 

HeliSwede

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Does anyone know exactly what he did say to the tower?
And yes, how much time did elapse after he told the tower he wanted to return?
So many questions; I hope NTSB will be able to answer them in the fullness of time.
I was told after he announced he was returning to the airport, the tower had binoculars on him. If this is correct, hopefully his testimony of what he observed will shed some light in the final report. For example: IF he saw the pilot fall over on the stick, that would explain a lot.
 

DavePA11

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It’s not possible to fall over on the stick in the Magni M24 when I tried it.
 

HeliSwede

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It’s not possible to fall over on the stick in the Magni M24 when I tried it.
I flew my grandson last week in my M24 915 and was showing him how very little movement of the stick it takes to bank or pitch the aircraft. Now assume the stick is in your right hand as it would be in flight and your left hand is on the throttle. Now, let me interject that I spent 4 yrs working in an Emergency Room while in college and many more years in Law Enforcement (as a first responder). I witnessed many people die, have stokes, seize, pass out, have heart attacks, panic attacks, hyper ventilate... the list is long. While Paul Salmon would be an expert in this as an ER Doc and M24 CFI, I can, with confidence, tell you that it is possible the pilot had a medical event that caused the stick to go full forward and/or the throttle, or both. Not exactly "fall" on the stick but with the same results. I love the Magni, I believe it to be the best in the gyro world in regards to safe flight, but things happen when pilots are in the cockpit. It will be good for all of us to get the final report.
 

Tyger

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I'm not sure about the M24, but I have no trim in the system just when I am taking off. If you don't have any trim on, the stick will tend to go forward unless you actively hold it back.
That said, I'd expect him to have trimmed it a bit before levelling out, but it's easy to forget things, especially for a new gyro pilot, and especially if something major is distracting you.
I too am a big Magni fan, obvs.
 

HeliSwede

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I'm not sure about the M24, but I have no trim in the system just when I am taking off. If you don't have any trim on, the stick will tend to go forward unless you actively hold it back.
That said, I'd expect him to have trimmed it a bit before levelling out, but it's easy to forget things, especially for a new gyro pilot, and especially if something major is distracting you.
I too am a big Magni fan, obvs.
The M24 pre-take-off checklist calls for full forward trim (to get green light) before taxi/pre-rotate/takeoff, than after reaching 70kts or so and a few hundred feet, begin to trim the stick back to relieve pressure and get neutral stick as power is also reduced. If a M24 pilot does not trim back after take-off, the stick will have significant forward force.
 

Burrengyro

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It’s not possible to fall over on the stick in the Magni M24 when I tried it.
I am a big fan of 4 point seat belts. I notice many second-hand Magni gyros for sale in Europe are not fitted with 4-point seat belts and only have lap seat belts. The 4 point seat belt would probably prevent a medically stricken pilot from slumping forward onto the stick or other controls. Full 5-point seatbelts would be better.
 

Greg Vos

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I am a big fan of 4 point seat belts. I notice many second-hand Magni gyros for sale in Europe are not fitted with 4-point seat belts and only have lap seat belts. The 4 point seat belt would probably prevent a medically stricken pilot from slumping forward onto the stick or other controls. Full 5-point seatbelts would be better.
So let me get my head around this …he does not fall on the stick because of the restraint ….would the outcome have been significantly different ?
 

DavePA11

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Actually, that is a good point Greg. Probably same outcome assuming he had some medical issue… We had trim on for level flight when experimenting with only lap belts. So if trim was forward and let go or lost control of stick than that might have caused it. Thanks Heliswede and all for the additional insight.

Regarding belts, 4 point is an option and the thinking is the lap belts should be sufficient for normal near zero landing speeds. But of course normal isn’t what typically happens with accidents. I would prefer 4 point too. Oh I have to put do not resuscitate if burnt too in my advanced medical directives. That would suck.
 
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Burrengyro

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So let me get my head around this …he does not fall on the stick because of the restraint ….would the outcome have been significantly different ?
Hi Greg,
I don't know the root cause of this accident or if it was a medical emergency in the case of this unfortunate pilot, nor do I know if he was wearing a 4-point seat belt. If it was such a medical issue, and if a trained co-pilot was on the flight, 4-point seat belts could prevent an incapacitated pilot or passenger from causing problems for the free movement of the controls. If only, perhaps......

I know from my own experience that a lap seat belt is next to useless in any emergency. When I totalled my gyro, I was wearing only a lap seat belt. Luckily, my passenger was wearing a 4-point seat belt and he escaped without a scratch. I ended up with several fractures in my arm, but still managed to walk away. When I have enough funds for another gyro, it will have 4-point seat belts in both seats.

Unfortunately, 4-point seat belts do not save pilots from risky decisions, but their use might lessen the consequences.
 

WaspAir

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The primary value of a lap belt is to keep occupants from being ejected. Shoulder harnesses protect you from secondary collisions with cockpit structures. 5th straps prevent "submarining" from under the other four straps.
 

Aerofoam

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I just bought a pair of 4pt. racing harnesses from Ebay. I wasn't expecting much for $59 (For both!) But they are very nice, a lot better than I expected...
 

Burrengyro

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The tricky part is not buying the harnesses, it's finding appropriate (strong enough) attachment points for the shoulder belts...
Tyger,
You are correct. Some gyros fitted only with lap belts can be very difficult to retrofit with 4-point seat belts.
 

Tyger

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I know from my own experience that a lap seat belt is next to useless in any emergency. When I totalled my gyro, I was wearing only a lap seat belt. Luckily, my passenger was wearing a 4-point seat belt and he escaped without a scratch. I ended up with several fractures in my arm, but still managed to walk away.
I suggest that, far from being "next to useless", the lap belt probably prevented you from being thrown from the aircraft, which could obviously have been catastrophic.
You imply that a 4-point restraint would have prevented your arm from being broken. Can you explain how it might have done so?
 

DavePA11

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The primary value of a lap belt is to keep occupants from being ejected. Shoulder harnesses protect you from secondary collisions with cockpit structures. 5th straps prevent "submarining" from under the other four straps.
My Husky had 5 point belts, and worked very well in my accident. My left hand/arm was sore from hitting the front side bar on left side of wind shield, but I suspect it might have been much worse if I didn’t have the chest straps holding me to the back of the chair…My chest where the straps were was sore after the accident too.
 
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