Fatal - Magni M16 12-CO, Arceau, Côte-d'Or, France

TyroGyro

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Sketchy details of what happened, at the moment. Crashed and burned. Reportedly a training flight, with both occupants in their 60s/70.


One person has sadly succumbed to his injuries, it seems.

Sincere condolences to all affected by this tragic incident.

A very bad year for Magni Gyro, with five fatal accidents in 2021. Probably just randomness...
 
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fara

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Sketchy details of what happened, at the moment. Reportedly a training flight, with both occupants in their 60s/70.


One person has sadly succumbed to his injuries, it seems.

Sincere condolences to all affected by this tragic incident.

A very bad year for Magni Gyro, with five fatal accidents in 2021. Probably just randomness...

Sad news. My condolences to the friends and family of the deceased. Sounds like a training mishap a bit in my guess.
I have however noticed that Magnis in particular are extremely prone to catching fire on every hard crash. These guys crawled out of the crash. Not a fan here of composite fuel tanks on trike and gyro keels.
Again sad news in France for gyroplane community
 
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DavePA11

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Where are the fuel tanks on the Magni M16 and M22? Are they under the rear passenger seat?

Thanks,
Dave
 

fara

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Where are the fuel tanks on the Magni M16 and M22? Are they under the rear passenger seat?

Thanks,
Dave
Magni's backseat is integrated fuel tank as well. Basically the back seat passenger is sitting on the fuel tank itself. I am not a fan of Dominator or others where they use the seat literally as fuel tank itself as well but at least those are crosslinked Polyethelene plastic material that will deform a lot before bursting. Composite tanks in that place seem to be worse. This is a change that hopefully Magni will consider making and may be this is something that can be brought up in upcoming ASTM compliance standards for construction. We have the advantage of data and hindsight to improve on BCAR Sec T there and make better minimum standards that do not overly stress the cost while giving a lot of benefit in crashworthiness for better bang for the buck. There are a few things in BCAR Sec T that really are carry overs from BCAR Sec S and really do not apply to gyroplanes in an equal way. Dead drop test heights calculation being one of those. Rotorcraft do not stall and hence using the same height for a dead drop landing loads test as airplanes and trikes is not warranted in a minimum standard

Seat:With integral fuel-tank manufactured in epoxy resin reinforced with fiberglass.
 
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Chuck Roberg

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(With integral fuel-tank manufactured in epoxy resin reinforced with fiberglass.)

With most of the fuel in the States having some addition of alcohol in the fuel. How are the composite (fiberglass) tanks holding up to not leaking.

I heard there is a resin that will hold up to alcohol. But with time even that will start to degrade the resin.
 

DavePA11

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Thanks Fara. Can the Magni seat tanks be modified to use a fuel bladder or must that be designed into the tank?
 

fara

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Thanks Fara. Can the Magni seat tanks be modified to use a fuel bladder or must that be designed into the tank?

i don’t know the answer to that. If you don’t crash hard enough, obviously not a problem at all. But just as in this accident if you crawled out of the crash but got hurt and one died due to burning, that is a sad thing.
 

fara

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(With integral fuel-tank manufactured in epoxy resin reinforced with fiberglass.)

With most of the fuel in the States having some addition of alcohol in the fuel. How are the composite (fiberglass) tanks holding up to not leaking.

I heard there is a resin that will hold up to alcohol. But with time even that will start to degrade the resin.

The resin that is somewhat ethanol resistant is good Vinyl Ester resin. I do not know of any epoxy resin that is ethanol resistant but there may be some new ones (I have not researched the subject since 2010) that may have those properties like epoxy Phenol Novalac or equivalent top coating with it. An example may be Jeffco 9700-FCR. I have never bothered with it personally so don't take my word as gospel.

In general having done composite tanks in Apollo LSA airplanes and many trikes before then, even with Vinyl Esters, they eventually will dissolve with constant use and standing of ethanol in the tank. I thus decided to simply switch to metal tanks in trikes and airplanes we used to make. Its simply was not worth the hassle to try and stick with composite tanks unless you specify no ethanol can be used in your fuel system. Metal tanks cost more than composite or plastic tanks. So that is what the issue would be. Plastic tanks of correct plastic do well for a long time as well. They degrade with UV and eventually need changing but once mold is made, the cost per part is much lower than metal tanks.

KitFox still uses fiberglass tanks that they make with Vinyl Ester resin and there are many users who from time to time post problems they have with KitFox tanks and sticking valves due to resin dissolving and going into the engine when using ethanol laden fuel. Many KitFox owners will use 100LL with Decalin all the time to avoid these issues.
 
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Tyger

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I don't think it would be feasible to add a bladder to the current tank configuration. Possibly one could be designed in, new, but I cannot imagine one being retrofitted. Replacing the fuel tank on a Magni is reputed to be one of the most difficult tasks; it would certainly require removal of the outer fuselage, which would entail disconnecting all wiring to the cockpit.

I am quite sure Magni does use an ethanol-resistant epoxy, although I do not know the actual composition. They are aware that Rotax allows up to E10 in their engines, and I am not aware of any Magni-specific prohibitions on the use of ethanol-laced petrol.
 

500e

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Would have thought aftermarket fitment would be a no go. The MD 500 has bladder tanks & Robinson has had the fire problem & has a program ongoing of retrofit on older machines & I believe all new machines come with same.
The only thing I can think of is to mitigate the spread of fire would be some foam fill which will hopefully keep the fuel from spreading so far or fast in accident

Sad news that surviving accident to be engulfed in flames so sorry for family
 

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Has anyone considered wearing Nomex for everyday flight? It could definitely be a life saver in accidents like these.
 
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Doug Riley

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Tyger, yes, the topic has come up here from time to time. The late David Holmes advocated wearing fire-resistant clothing -- though he himself wore a tux one time while making an entrance to a black-tie event in his gyro. He had a fuel fire on that occasion, and the synthetic tux fabric melted and burned his back.

The original Ken Brock seat tanks were fiberglass. While glossy and pretty, they were rather brittle and did crack and spill fuel on people now and then. Ken switched to softer poly.
 

500e

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I believe Robinson suggested fireproof clothing at one time, before bag tanks.
I fly with as much cotton next to skin as possible & no shorts or short sleves.
Melted plastic is not nice
 

Tyger

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If you get a large enough Nomex you can wear it over other clothing. Might not be very comfortable in hot weather, but otherwise it seems easy to do. I notice Vance seems always to wear a flight suit – not sure what it's made of.
 

Vance

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I love flying with my Nomex flight suit.
It is comfortable over a wide range of conditions.
They can be had surplus for reasonable prices.
A drivers racing suit also works well.
 

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TyroGyro

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Has anyone considered wearing Nomex for everyday flight? It could definitely be a life saver in accidents like these.

I wear nothing else. They are quite comfortable, quick to put on and take off, look cool, and one day might just make the difference in an accident...
 

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I love flying with my Nomex flight suit.
It is comfortable over a wide range of conditions.
They can be had surplus for reasonable prices.
A drivers racing suit also works well.
It's best to wash your Nomex frequently and by itself if possible. Washing Nomex does not remove any of the flame retardant or heat resistant properties. Especially, do not wash Nomex garments with material that pills or forms lint. The lint can adhere to the Nomex fibers and function as a fuel in a fire. Same thing with fuel or oil stains; remove the stains before, or during washing to remove a possible fuel source.

Summer weight military flight suits are comfortable, and do provide protection, but don't give as much protection as a good Simpson suit or Simpson under garment.
 
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