Engine mount questions

[GyroRon]

Chuck I guess your right, I didn't fully read into Scotts main question in this thread. I took what he posted, quickly read it and percieved it as a basic question of which of his two ideas would be best.... the blue lines in that one picture or the yellow ones.

My responces to this point have only been to voice my opinion that based on common gyroplane construction, I can not remember ever seeing any gyros with any type of rigid attachment of the engine mounting bed to the axle of the gyro.

I also wanted to point out that, even though it may be very little at all as you pointed out, bracing the engine mount to the axle will allow or cause flexing stress to be placed upon the entire engine mounting bed. Even looking at Scotts picture he posted of his crash, if he mounted the engine to the axle as you suggest, there may have been little to no bending or damage to the mounts. So I guess that mounting to the axle won't be a major No No.

But once again, I still can not picture One gyro I can remember that has the engine mount rigidly attached to the axle. Going to ROC may be a good way for Scott to get more ideas.

My point in bringing the gyrobee into this discussion is to only shed light on the fact that there could be a point where the mount could end up as overkill. The gyrobee uses a simple mount with little bracing.

 

[scottessex]

Chuck, what i would like to see is the back of this one, this is the closest I have seen to what I am going to end up with, without the pod, but this looks like a drop keel KB3.

 

[Chuck Irby]

Ron, I agree with you in that I have never seen engine mount braces attached to the axle. However, from an engineering standpoint, the torque support would be far better than it would be if mounted to the drop keel. In addition, there would be less vertical movement of the engine support than in a tail first landing with the braces attached to the drop keel.

Scott, that is Richard Kennedy's machine. I think it's a modified AC. Email him for a pic. He's a nice guy and will help you any way he can, I'll bet. <[email protected]>

 

[GyroRon]

That looks like a modified KB-3 to me. The KB-3 is the only gyro I know of that uses a bent axle like that.

 

[Chuck Irby]

Ron, I'm sure you're probably correct. I just know it ain't a Dom.

How's it looking for the turnout for ROC?

 

[gyromike]

It is indeed a modified KB-3.
I believe it uses Don Parhams 8" drop keel cluster plates.
The tail is made of tube and fabric.

 

[Friendly]

scott , if you don't put something messy on that floor, I am going to stop reading this thread. I will consider it fiction!!!!

 

[Doug Riley]

Those who put heavy engines on Bensen frames often used to run braces from either the front or the rear of the engine mount down to the bolts in the axle that also attach the (steel) axle-to-mast angles. I did it myself on my VW-Bensen after finding that the engine tended to "sway" side-to-side. With those steel angles in place, that attachment point is not about to flex on landing (the axle will bend -- or break -- around that point).

Once you're flying, the axle doesn't bear any load other than the weight of the wheels. Engine torque is applied between the engine mounting point on the mast and the rotor. So the square mount tube with cluster plates to the mast handles the in-flight torque load. The down-braces are for landing and ground operations only.

The braces under the engine on a Bensen support the keel tube against tailwheel loads. You wouldn't expect these braces to do much in flight, either. Bensen's classic engine mount wisely puts most of the metal into the mount-to-mast (firewall) juncture, and only a couple pairs of 3/4" angles for the keel braces.

 

[GyroRon]

chuck the turn out for ROC is looking really good so far. May be the best turnout we have had in the last few years the way things are going so far. You coming?

 

[Chuck Irby]

Thank you Doug. I agree with what I think you said.

Ron, I would really like to go to ROC, but in all probability, I won't decide till the last minute.

 

[GyroRon]

Well it would not be the same if you don't come up to hang with us. I am very excited and am counting down the days!!! I thought you'd really have a blast at Bensen Days and I guess you did, but knowing you better now, I believe you will enjoy ROC much more. Your call, hope you decide to come.

 

[scottessex]

C'mon Chuck! I'll buy ya a beer!
And I'll cry in it because my gyro isn't flying yet.

If you decide please let us know so we will be able to look for you when you get there.

 

[scottessex]

I think I figured it out, I will post pics shortly, Chuck you were right, I came up with a better Idea.
Ron, You will like the radiator mounting I came up with.
Mark, don't worry it will be messy soon enough, otherwise I am not working hard enough.
Thanks for all the help, and I did get some pics of the modified KB3. Thanks Chuck!