ELA 07 Made in China

1946

Banned
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Messages
675
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China
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Cessna150
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At the end of this one life we have, the money you talk about may have given us financial happiness but not the real down to earth happiness that comes from trusting relationships with family, friends and the past ethical practices we have shared with other people in business. Maybe that sounds dumpy...but it's not.

At our end, there would be a silent feeling of pride and fulfillment as one drifts off into….the void or a perhaps new level. These things come into sharper focus as we age and my focus is about as clear as it's going to get ;).
We live in an unjust world; money is not the answer to nothing, just calms the nerves. You don’t sound dumpy at all, it’s all too different opinions, but I respect yours.

Thanks
Albert
 

Zigge

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Sep 28, 2009
Messages
182
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sweden
I posted regarding the rotorblades and how people should not bad mouth chinese products without knowing facts, but this is a totally different story!
just take some ones work and copy it!!!

I guess I would be very pissed off if some one stole my work that I put my heart and sole into!

I had a neutral possision regarding your business but now I think less of you...
 

MrGrey

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Munster, IN
I posted regarding the rotorblades and how people should not bad mouth chinese products without knowing facts, but this is a totally different story!
just take some ones work and copy it!!!

I guess I would be very pissed off if some one stole my work that I put my heart and sole into!

I had a neutral possision regarding your business but now I think less of you...
I couldnt agree with you more... this man makes me sick. He is no friend to our community.
 

WHY

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miami,oklahoma
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As fas as patents and copyrights, even in this country, they have very little value to the "small guy" . The best example I can think of is the "weed eater" story, read it some time for a real temper buster !!

If you invent a "super monster " idea you have two choices, sell it immediately to a big firm for what you can get out of it or lose it and any money you made from it in court battles. I major company can take that same patent you sold them and literally burn the competition at the stake, but you can't do squat with it.

Tony
 

RotoPlane

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You are right Tony….an individual or small business that is awarded a utility patent of something with substantial value in this country is practically DOA, because our patent laws only protect those with big bank accounts. A big company can repeal until the small guy is penniless.

I designed a plastic lawn spray gun known as the ChemLawn Spray Gun or now the green Lesco Spray Gun. I spent a lot of time in court defending "our" patent and there is no way I could have been able to spend those multi-thousands of dollars on my own. One company in Brazil copied the gun right down to a mistake my molder made in the handle. The guns pressure balanced design by the way, held for the full patented term ;).

My hope is that someday our countries patent laws will also serve the "small guy"…..
 

mark treidel

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Beautiful Mile High Denver, Colorado
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Dont wish anybody any purposeful harm, however, It would appear that this clown is headed to his own smoking hole.
Just pray he doesn't take anyone else with him.
 
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rfonseca

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268
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Republic of Panama
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Alouette III Helicopter; Dominator Gyro;
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I recommend to read the book: the sociopath next door. Available at amazon
 

RotoPlane

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When I worked in equipment research I talked to a bunch of salesmen because what parts we decided to use would be purchased by the thousands. I met a few salesmen with somewhat the same attitude as Albert, only it was against other American suppliers or companies. When I recognized it I would not agree to another meeting.

The difference between them and Albert is that they voiced derogatory comments or downright lies toward others. To Albert's credit, I have found him to be straight forward, even to his detriment. I may not like the way he views his salesman ethics, perhaps it is more of a country to country thing, but I don't feel that if he were American, he would act like some salesmen I noted above. Sometimes people are dragged into an "anything goes" corporate culture that tends to stick. But then I have never met the man face to face…..we could argue….a lot ;).
 

Redbaron

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earth
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bee
when u gonna take dem birds up albert, looking forward to a flight report. :confused:
 
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WHY

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miami,oklahoma
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While talking about company ethichs and moralities, how many have ever gone to work for a major corp or company and found they were required to sign a paper that gives the company "all rights to any invention or idea (intelectual property)they concieve while working for that company and sometimes for a period of time after they might leave the company. In some cases this has been applied to ideas that were not even associated with anything the company was involved in. Used to work for a major corp and encountered this requirement first hand.

And they wonder why the "inventor spirit" is fading. Design something that saves a major corp hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and you get a "atta boy" in your file or a $100 gift certificate ???????????

We got enough problem right here in "river city" without looking elsewhere.

Tony
 

RotoPlane

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A hundred dollars??.... I got jipped(sp)….I only received one dollar and a thank you note….

Yeah, I've had to sign those suckers.
 

1946

Banned
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
675
Location
China
Aircraft
Cessna150
Total Flight Time
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When I worked in equipment research I talked to a bunch of salesmen because what parts we decided to use would be purchased by the thousands. I met a few salesmen with somewhat the same attitude as Albert, only it was against other American suppliers or companies. When I recognized it I would not agree to another meeting.

The difference between them and Albert is that they voiced derogatory comments or downright lies toward others. To Albert's credit, I have found him to be straight forward, even to his detriment. I may not like the way he views his salesman ethics, perhaps it is more of a country to country thing, but I don't feel that if he were American, he would act like some salesmen I noted above. Sometimes people are dragged into an "anything goes" corporate culture that tends to stick. But then I have never met the man face to face…..we could argue….a lot ;).
Nor can cigarette ads be banned on the grounds that they manipulate consumers. The tobacco industry's advertising ploys are no different from any other industry's techniques to promote its products. Consumers are well acquainted with the rules of the game in advertising. People should be expected to take care of themselves whether they are reading an ad for cigarettes or passing by an enticing display in a department store.


Free markets are part of commerce, when regulated, is no longer free. A true free market is without bounds; fraud, deception, poor quality are all allowed. Why? The consumer who is the user of the market offerings is responsible for their choices. This will and should the buyer to become smarter, and the market will not allow questionable products! Whenever some authority or a group, or a forum tries to correct the ignorance of the buyer, the buyer becomes dumbed down, and then the moral character blemishes become something that the sole authority or a group, or a forum controls! Problem is, the free market can control moral blemishes, but in the history I have read, the authorities or a group on any given forum have never been in control of moral behavior. If you could control moral behavior, there would be no wars. A free market does not corrode moral character any more than daily living does.

Thank
Albert
 

Resasi

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Thank you for your answer Albert.

I don’t think in the near future this craft will be available for exports to North America,
I would imagine that this might be due to the legal implications, due to the lack of involvement of the builder. He would almost certainly wish to seek redress on what he may well feel was theft.

in the meantime orders from other Asian countries ‘apparently’ are pouring in, and I suspect sales will be made without question asked.
The orders from Asian countries are no doubt from those who will be aware of the source and prepared to take the risk, caveat emptor. In some/possibly many cases it may well be a safer way for them to go. It will spread the sport, one hopes without making the reputation of gyro flying any worse than it already is.

Now, don’t blame China for what’s happening here. In the past, for a Chinese project we have made soft approaches to various gyro builders worldwide with the offer of an equal share in the profits to build and amount of gyros they only could dream of it, the result were all the same, they think having some special technologies and want to be paid exorbitant amounts for it, greed and short vision. Re-engineering was the answer. Blame them.
Unfortunately here I have to disagree with your way of thinking and bland pragmatism. I do blame China and its present way of doing business. I realise that there is a huge cultural divide between the Chinese and the West. Always has been and probably always will be, it does not however mean that we here will ever be converted to that way of thought, as a general rule. For now.

There will always be the amoral amongst us. Liars cheats and thieves, who who would sell their own mothers into slavery for a buck, nor give a tuppany hapenny damn who might die as a result of defective or substandard materials, but in general, in the West there would seem to be an attempt to control those more rapacious amongst us.

Yes big money/big companies do stifle opposition whenever it can get away with it, and ours is not a society without its major problems. But there is an honest effort to have curbs and controls.

In China we see no such effort. Only the desire to catch up on the lost decades of Mao and the cultural madness of a system that it is now realized has resulted in the technological gap that they now seek to erase by whatever means. It destroyed innovation and individual enterprise and why they now copy and steal.

The Chinese cyber trawling and computer hacking world wide has not gone unnoticed. Nor has the wholesale purchase of all these technologies, though that at least is regarded as business on a level that is considered acceptable.

The West has borrowed beyond its means for many years now, the profligate lifestyle of the majority of countries, majority of their populations will rebound upon us in a terrible way and there is going to be a major shift in world power. China will be the next global dominant power, and I for one am not looking forward to that day
 

Chopper Reid

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Pooncarie. Australia
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I think Albert gives a valuable insight to the way China regards the rest of the world and the road China is going to take in the future not only in maufacturing but in how it will treat the rest of the world when it comes to shove.

America might still be able to stand up to the military might of China now but the way things are shaping, even 5 years away might well see China as the No 1 superpower.

Only 'westernization' might bring the Chinese undone. :)
 

Lee Scatt

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I think Albert gives a valuable insight to the way China regards the rest of the world and the road China is going to take in the future not only in maufacturing but in how it will treat the rest of the world when it comes to shove.

America might still be able to stand up to the military might of China now but the way things are shaping, even 5 years away might well see China as the No 1 superpower.

Only 'westernization' might bring the Chinese undone. :)
I think you are correct. "First one country gets freedom, then the whole dam world wants freedom...." (Gil Scott Heron).
THe internet as innocuous as it may seem, provides a look at the world that has never been available to many, without censorship.
The Chinese people will work for pennies for only so long.
 

1946

Banned
Joined
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Messages
675
Location
China
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Cessna150
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Thank you for your answer Albert.

I would imagine that this might be due to the legal implications, due to the lack of involvement of the builder. He would almost certainly wish to seek redress on what he may well feel was theft.

The orders from Asian countries are no doubt from those who will be aware of the source and prepared to take the risk, caveat emptor. In some/possibly many cases it may well be a safer way for them to go. It will spread the sport, one hopes without making the reputation of gyro flying any worse than it already is.


Unfortunately here I have to disagree with your way of thinking and bland pragmatism. I do blame China and its present way of doing business. I realise that there is a huge cultural divide between the Chinese and the West. Always has been and probably always will be, it does not however mean that we here will ever be converted to that way of thought, as a general rule. For now.

There will always be the amoral amongst us. Liars cheats and thieves, who who would sell their own mothers into slavery for a buck, nor give a tuppany hapenny damn who might die as a result of defective or substandard materials, but in general, in the West there would seem to be an attempt to control those more rapacious amongst us.

Yes big money/big companies do stifle opposition whenever it can get away with it, and ours is not a society without its major problems. But there is an honest effort to have curbs and controls.

In China we see no such effort. Only the desire to catch up on the lost decades of Mao and the cultural madness of a system that it is now realized has resulted in the technological gap that they now seek to erase by whatever means. It destroyed innovation and individual enterprise and why they now copy and steal.

The Chinese cyber trawling and computer hacking world wide has not gone unnoticed. Nor has the wholesale purchase of all these technologies, though that at least is regarded as business on a level that is considered acceptable.

The West has borrowed beyond its means for many years now, the profligate lifestyle of the majority of countries, majority of their populations will rebound upon us in a terrible way and there is going to be a major shift in world power. China will be the next global dominant power, and I for one am not looking forward to that day
Creating the cultural divide doesn’t emanate from China, the cultural divide can also be seen in various forms of media, such as movies, TV, and on the Internet, this portrayed always in the negativities about China and its business practices. Cultural divide is a term of sociology and psychology, referring to attempts to describe the differences in reaction, response, and perception of people exposed to multi-cultural situations. The China invasion of the U.S. auto industry has been anticipated with fear and loathing for a decade, Chinese companies already enter the U.S. with impossibly cheap cars, the worries go, they are grabbing the attention and imagination of car buyers, especially the next generation of car buyers who have a more global view of culture and brands than their parents and grandparents.

Selling Chines Gyros and other aviation items into the US market won’t be any different than selling US re-engineered cars, not overnight achievements in aviation products, high market access barriers, which have increased the difficulty of Chinese products to enter the North American market, more important, like in the "flower of the manufacturing industry," the aviation industry make a difference in Chinese manufacturers , both in standards, technology and the trade environment, we are faced with many obstacles set up with USA counterparts. But, I firmly believe that since China's own brand of cars through the efforts have been made in North America is not a small success, China's aviation products here also promising too if we are all able to break the so called cultural divide. China’s competitive challenge makes Americans nervous, from Wall Street to Main Street, Americans are nervous about China’s effect on the American economy, American jobs, on the American way of life.

Nothing has been stolen, the gyro was purchased on the open market and it will be sold with a different engine and other re-engineered items, perhaps even enclosed. US car companies have no redress on re-engineered cars; the platform might be the same while the body is different. I would have to concur with you, accidents might occur and the possibility of many losing their life’s with a modified machine and this would be no different than the US manufacturer of some personal helicopter causing, like someone on this board, called it a carnage. In China, like in the USA, the authorities only get involved at the point of an accident, investigation could reveal some fault parts and a directive is issued for rectification. In the same vein, personally I don’t think the helicopter manufacturer intentionally sold his products with the intention to kill any one while reports pointed to poor design and workmanship. Being an American his lack of engineering expertise was somehow ignored and overlooked , a Chines subject would be crucified. Enter hypocrisy.

Entering a discussion about Mao and the cultural madness, would result in a political view only to say you have a fair share of your own mad leaders, and in respect to cyber trawling and computer hacking and everyone, except you , knows it runs consistently both was, Chines just to know what each other is doing and how to screw each other diplomatically.

Thanks
Albert
 
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Heron

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Some guys here are starting to see the light!
Point to Renee!
For long time the cultural take over came from America and we lost some gain some, now with faster communication and analisys, people tend to make more informed decisions and preserve what is good for them.
Living in Brazil has advantages, a true melting pot. The best kibe (arabic food) in Bauru is found at a bar called Abril in Portugal and it is ownde by a japanese couple . . . nobody is claiming property rights.
Some time ago, the patent Office was in London and lots of inventions were stolen by the "authorities" and the rightfull owner got as response, "your letter never reached us on time, sorry"! Two Brazilians are at the forefront of aviation, plus a portuguese priest living here, but not many aeronuts know anything about it.
Things were done in a gentleman´s manner back then, but duels were a form of settlement . . .today is about court and shrugging . . .move on!
Heron
 

Monarchist

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Nothing has been stolen, the gyro was purchased on the open market and it will be sold with a different engine and other re-engineered items, perhaps even enclosed. US car companies have no redress on re-engineered cars; the platform might be the same while the body is different.
Albert, this is BS...what you're doing is taking someone else's design more-or-less verbatim, and creating something that "looks" exactly like the original, even with the brand name ELA on the tail. This is just an attempt to deceive the consumer into thinking they're buying the "name brand" product.

Car companies would NEVER do this in the US...you don't see cars that look EXACTLY like a Ford (complete with a Ford logo on the back) unless it is made and sold by Ford.
 

i3 roberto

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HELA Chinese

HELA Chinese

Yes ,Mr: Emilio Lopez Alemani (ELA) design and it takes 10 years to develop and it takes personal and family risks making an re desiging his own model , now ,te chines copy and celebrate it with happy girl´s..............that is.....:censored:
 

MrGrey

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Munster, IN
I got to rethinking the whole ordeal with Albert, and well, in my eyes he is the worst gyroplane, PSRU salesman and ambassador in the world. He has single handedly isolated any potential sales to nearly the entire North American and Australian market for Chinese gyroplanes.

I personally thank him for his contributions highlighting the flaws with China and its desire to live up to its creedo that wealth is honorable and desired above all costs. He should be given a round of applause :first: for saving our US and European manufacturers here in the states and from preventing Chinese gyros from appealing to a large portion of the VERY vocal gyroplane market.

Way to go bud! ....your morals and ideas make me sick... :puke:
 
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