Dual Arch airframe for a BiRotor

BobK

Newbie
For years I thought of two arches one over & the other below. Where the two are attached there are two rotor hubs. Each arch is shaped like an airfoil to create lift and allow unloading of the rotors & reduce drag. This would be the only application (that I've heard of) of a non keel & mast autogyro airframe. A ultralight AirCycle designed around 72lbs with two 15' arches and 12 7' parafoil rotor blades and four air berrings on two rotorhubs is in some perfect world.:lol:
Where can this completely unfunded design go from drawings & ideas to build just one in proof of concept. I also want pedals under the lower arch on a swing arm that also holds the compressor & altenator. The tail is a inverted V that will fold for less drag at higher speeds, the front has a split canard.
An I know this can't be cheap. The frame that is in the 24lb range (both arches) has to be Kevlar & carbon fiber. The parafoils should be cut and ultrasonicly welded Tyvek by CNC to make all blades weight and shape balenced.
If this can fly I would love to try out large very fine wire coils to create vibration to AC energy converters at both the blade and maglev rotor hub level. Then the byproduct of rotary flight can be used to generate flyback harmonic converted power tuned to the load of the motor. Also differential rotor speeds can be used in the power conservation if reaching across the wind.
Is there help out there?
 

GyroDoug

Newbie
Only if you know of someone with a large fortune that is interested in turning it into a small fortune. I don't understand enough of your concept to know if it has any chance at all but when you start throwing out high tech materials and advanced ideas like you are talking about it is going to take people that are highly trained and experienced. (not your typical home builder / tinkerer) It is also going to require a bunch of money to pay for the expensive materials to play with.

I wish you all the luck in the world, but I am not aware of anyone you are going to be able to turn over your idea to who is going to make a large investment to see if it will work, with the hope that the market for the end product will magically grow into a large market of people with big money that would be willing to buy high end machines so they can actually make a return on their investment. (pretty tough sale)
 

BobK

Newbie
Thanks, Joke? maybe on me

Thanks, Joke? maybe on me

Thanks, Mike, Mike & Doug,
Is this a joke. Can I start with that one. It seams to be since it's still a bunch of little drawings & a cardboard model that doesn't have rotor blades, but glides pretty good.
My idea must have been a pretty good joke to all the current autogyro manufacturers I tried to get to maybe build one. Also since I have no formal education as a aircraft design engineer, nor previous flying except glider as a kid in high school. This came from working on electronic flight control computers and seeing how a design flew a plane I had no idea what it's shape or configuration was, just signals from sensors & outputs to servos and how & why the computer flew. All jokes aside the materials are priced in the unobtainium range. The bottom arch has to be hollow & have two compressed air chambers for the hubs & parafoil blade spars. The top arch should be solid & have tubes in the center for the hub tilt cables routed thru the center to the arch T. Is the idea too far out there to put the keel/mast structrial elements into a viable lifting airframe?
I know it's still going to weigh something, but a keel & mast do nothing for lift, unless there's a design out there I haven't come across yet. The vibration to energy conservation has been an idea since studying original Cervia's problems of lead lag and ground reasonance and using modern materials the autoroation forefather didn't have. I know a patent would do little good to get this one proof of concept built.
Sorry Mike you might be right, it might just be a huge joke on me. Or it could be someone's very expensive Flugtag toy. Right now the BOM is over $45k, so maybe if someone in china :)puke:) makes 5000 a day it could cost $7-9k for a flying JTO/VL air bike hybrid with a tiny motor to recharge batteries.
At least I'm not the first person to try a pedal autogyro, just the first to try a completely different configuration.
 

Attachments

Rotor Rooter

Dave Jackson
BobK

The aerodynamic aspects of your idea are very sound.

However, your drive system will not provide enough lift. Consider using an entabulator.

Entabulator.wmv - YouTube


______________

The above was obviously a joke.

But there is nothing wrong with synthesizing a combination of wild ideas, then by modification, elimination and replacement of its components, perhaps something unique will present itself.


Dave.
 
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BobK

Newbie
Thank You Dave !

Thank You Dave !

That lightened up my day. He did it all from memory not a script. Big words, but non harmonic reasonance untuned is unloadable as a power source. I can't put a price on unobtainium. I could put a reasonable price on vibration to energy reaseach at $250b if it's utilized at the nanoscale in modern materials that happen to make noise as a byproduct of operation. Dave your last inital isn't U by chance??? It would be way too small a world:eek:.
 

BobK

Newbie
The Blade shape is from a RangaRoo

The Blade shape is from a RangaRoo

Thanks again Dave, I was thinking you might be a friend pulling a weird prank and actually not crashing it into the ground. Have you ever worked with Tyvek. The stuff is so strong you can't put your finger through it. I just don't want to put any stitch holes in it even thouth it is a non-woven. I've just cut it with a sheetrock knife on cardboard & you can see the knife dull in a few hundred cuts. When it's ultrasonically welded I can place an inflateable spar on the main sheet base, Then build up ribs with lighter flavor. The leading edge is to be double and the drawstring (to feather the blade) sleve added before top covering welded up tip to root. Last welds are to the hub skirts & air supply (exhaust of air bering hub). Main sheet to hub welding is something I need to read more about bonding other materials to non woven polymars. This is the original toy.

These guys came in second. I don't think they had a drive to the wheels from the pedals. I used 15' frame width & 7' blade length to get to the redbull maximum width of 30' & still giv me a few inches spare in the center for part of the control the T to the upper arch from the shoulder/waist harness. These guys also used the standard single rotor & mast/keel design which is proven, but still went in the water. 209' is the current record for Flugtag. Found out one of the guys was from RPI & when I was up in upstate NY I stopped by to try to see if they had another HPA they might want to persue, but they were not interested. It was sorta the same way at the Hofstra University conference. History, not much modern. not too interested in discussion either. I can't patent Dual arch air frame for birotor, the cover sheet is more than I make in a month & I would never see a dime if it were built by someone with vision & money. I got to go wash the dishes.:puke:
 

Attachments

For a moment I was interested. It sounded like the dampers between the blade systems would be used as generators to produce electricity. After all , blade dampers create wasted heat and wasted friction , might as well turn it into something useful.

Away you go boys , with another idea to occupy the patent engineers.
 

BobK

Newbie
Arnie I think you were thinking about thread with generator on the rotorhead?

I like to let the original inventor's spelling say it all. AutoGiro. In that thread
I mention the byproduct of autorotational flight to energy, but on AC power
and at a much higher frequency than rrpm. I tried to keep this to the airframe
shaped as an airfoil. Dual arches in side-by-side BiRotor configuration. I know
it could be built with a motor, won't a brick fly if you strap on a jet engine?
This frame was just an idea based on very light pedal airbike. Sure some of the
materials are exotic, and some of the tools are unaffordable to rent so I'm not
a great inventor or a fluid dynamics engineer, just a frustrated electronics test
engineer (in-circuit ATE) that's carrear went to china (sorry china that's why
the puke, it's not you personally) as most CEMs (my last real gig) for profit margins.
The frame is to take the drag out of keel & mast. I thought even Ben Mullet might be
a little interested. I know his idea has a basic censsa powerplant & airframe and
mount the rotors out on the wings. That's great, but how new is it? I pay great
tribute to Ceravia, but it's time to change and try somehthing new.
 

dboe

Newbie
Arnie I think you were thinking about thread with generator on the rotorhead?

I like to let the original inventor's spelling say it all. AutoGiro. In that thread
I mention the byproduct of autorotational flight to energy, but on AC power
and at a much higher frequency than rrpm. I tried to keep this to the airframe
shaped as an airfoil. Dual arches in side-by-side BiRotor configuration. I know
it could be built with a motor, won't a brick fly if you strap on a jet engine?
This frame was just an idea based on very light pedal airbike. Sure some of the
materials are exotic, and some of the tools are unaffordable to rent so I'm not
a great inventor or a fluid dynamics engineer, just a frustrated electronics test
engineer (in-circuit ATE) that's carrear went to china (sorry china that's why
the puke, it's not you personally) as most CEMs (my last real gig) for profit margins.
The frame is to take the drag out of keel & mast. I thought even Ben Mullet might be
a little interested. I know his idea has a basic censsa powerplant & airframe and
mount the rotors out on the wings. That's great, but how new is it? I pay great
tribute to Ceravia, but it's time to change and try somehthing new.
Thread is long dead, but recently came upon it. I also saw your post on a cycling forum. Do you have a better rendition of your idea at this point?
 

BobK

Newbie
rendition of which part? want to build?

rendition of which part? want to build?

Hi David
I also have thought the idea of dual arch airfoil airframe for birotor HPA parafoil autogiro long too exotic and expensive to even continue with individual part drawings. The whole thought that this could just be a testbed to let natural rotor resonance, giration in a linear induction hub, energy as by-products rotational flight that are either turned into acustic energy or over designed around to keep vibration from component destruction. I even want the end airframe to utilize vibration to energy coils embeded in the composites. The only part that's not real rocket science is the electronic circuits and DSPs to allow controlled flyback discharge to en electronic AC drive. I have really thought of not much less than the build of the 1st proof of concept. It isn't gonna be cheap :noidea: since I don't have a B.P. there will never be an investor. Are you willing to :help: , want to build? I was allowed to envision this configuration to come up with this design.
Thanks, Bob
HPA JTO/VL
72 pound total weight
12 7'2" parafoil rotorblades
2 15' archs bottom hollow, top foam core
 
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