Drone power

Jincamty

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I wonder how fat the rule book is going to get when someone eventually falls from a battery powered multirotor? The fun police will have to ban this somehow.
 

FRANK'S

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wow this is KOOL and scary too, and since it is under 254lbs it's a Ultra light and not a airplane.
 

DennisFetters

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wow this is KOOL and scary too, and since it is under 254lbs it's a Ultra light and not a airplane.
No, it's a drone. It's not controlled by the passenger. The passenger is only cargo, so it is still a drone and subject to the laws that control a drone.

I'm sure that when the video falls into the hands of the authorities, someone will want to be talking to the drone controller about why he was flying in such close proximity to the pubic in this manner, and probably want to discuss the legality of flying human cargo around and over the top of privet property.
 

phantom

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This would be leagel if the guy being lifted had the control transmitter and the machine weighed 254 pounds or less without fuel, on an electric machine do you count the batteries which is the fuel?
Norm
 

DennisFetters

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This would be leagel if the guy being lifted had the control transmitter and the machine weighed 254 pounds or less without fuel, on an electric machine do you count the batteries which is the fuel?
Norm
If it were a small manned helicopter flying or another sort device buzzing down the center of main street, or any other aircraft you can think of for that matter; How could that be legal? It is absolutely lethal and endangering people and property. Drone or not, that thing is large enough in size alone to kill a bunch of people, let alone the 32 high speed swirling daggers surrounding it.

Good question. Would the batteries be considered in the weight as fuel. It would make since if it were. The fuel in an Ultralight is considered in volume of combustible liquid. I would guess the most fair way would be to calculate the overall weight of 5 gallons of fuel, and not allow the batteries to exceed that weight. Therefor you would not exceed the 254 pounds weight restrictions of an Ultralight while full of fuel.

It does not matter if an Ultralight weighs 150 pounds, or 254. It can still only carry a 5 gallon limit of fuel, so the Multirotor Manned Ultralight would have to hold to the same restrictions.
 

JAL

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I saw one video of a drone towing a wake boarder. That is pretty good, would solve a lot of boat congestion at the ski lakes. Especially if the drones could co-ordinate with anti collision capabilities. get twice as many water skiers in the same area.
 

earthbnd misfit

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I can't see how the guy controlling the drone is keeping up with the drone to be able to control it. When you get a good shot of him going down hill, as he's loading and unloading the tow cable, the drone stays at the same angle. I'm amazed at pulling at such a angle doesn't pull it over.
JD
 

DennisFetters

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I can't see how the guy controlling the drone is keeping up with the drone to be able to control it. When you get a good shot of him going down hill, as he's loading and unloading the tow cable, the drone stays at the same angle. I'm amazed at pulling at such a angle doesn't pull it over.
JD
The cable is attached close enough to the drones Center of Mass that no matter what angle the tow cable is will not effect the attitude of the drone that much.

Also there is now software available to use with the drones control system that allows stability for sling-loads, so as the load swings, the drone automatically will stabilize the load.
 

bryancobb

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FAKE Right now!

FAKE Right now!

OK Gents,

The technology is here now...but that video is so fake it ain`t even funny. :D

The digital editing is actually pretty good but the lighting and motion of the drone doesn`t match up with the ambient conditions. Pretty clever.
 

DennisFetters

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OK Gents,

The technology is here now...but that video is so fake it ain`t even funny. :D

The digital editing is actually pretty good but the lighting and motion of the drone doesn`t match up with the ambient conditions. Pretty clever.
Well it's not all in one take and sure it's composited and edited together, but all the flying is real. Or, I would have believed so. Nothing there that can't be done on the machine I see, except for very short flight durations from battery drain. Sure, you can do anything now days in a studio for sure.
 
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Mark Beierle is the designer of the Earthstar Thundergull 2000 ultralight powered by an electric motor. In his talks with the FAA he has been saying that batteries are fuel and to meet the legal requirement can be no more than the volume of 5 gallons of gasoline not weight which so far they have agreed to. Personally, I would prefer to use the same energy equivalent as 5 gallons of gas to determine battery size, but that seems to be where we are.
 

DennisFetters

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Personally, I would prefer to use the same energy equivalent as 5 gallons of gas to determine battery size, but that seems to be where we are.
5 gallons of MOGAS weighs about 31.5lbs. So you think it would be OK to carry 693 pounds of batteries around to equal the energy equivalent of 5 gallons of gas?
 

timdrnec

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Not fake.
I got the call to work on this video several weeks ago. Wasn't able to make it up to Finland due to previous commitments but the concept and prep was for exactly what you see in the clip.
 
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Well,Dennis, that is based on today's technology. And to repeat, the FAA seems to be saying "volume" not "weight".When dealing with a regulatory agency, it is best to try to get rules in place early on that allow for future development. Not controlling the conversation is how we end up with Recreational Pilot Licenses, no gyros in the Sportplane category, or you name it when dealing with Big Dumb Government. Writing the regs in terms of "maximum energy allowed" for powering any future ultralight would permit any power plant up to and including antimatter drive. An excellent example of shortsightedness is how we ended up with Sportplanes being limited to"reciprocating engine only" eliminating electric power out of hand.
 
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DennisFetters

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Well,Dennis, that is based on today's technology. And to repeat, the FAA seems to be saying "volume" not "weight".When dealing with a regulatory agency, it is best to try to get rules in place early on that allow for future development. Not controlling the conversation is how we end up with Recreational Pilot Licenses, no gyros in the Sportplane category, or you name it when dealing with Big Dumb Government. Writing the regs in terms of "maximum energy allowed" for powering any future ultralight would permit any power plant up to and including antimatter drive. An excellent example of shortsightedness is how we ended up with Sportplanes being limited to"reciprocating engine only" eliminating electric power out of hand.
I couldn't agree more about governments and the need to forecast the future needs.

I see no big difference between how the FAA would limit the battery; by weight or volume. That's why I would have thought that the weight of the battery pack would have been more along their thinking.

But, in my mind, since the Ultralight category limits were established based on weight and speed considerations to limit the kinetic energy a vehicle contains that could impose damage upon impact to property, I would have figured the FAA would have gone with battery weight equaling that of 5 gallons of gasoline to insure the vehicle would not exceed the weight of 285.5lbs (Vehicle and 5gls fuel).

The FAA did not put flight duration or distance as a Ultralight restriction, so their primary concern was to limit the kinetic energy of the vehicle.

Yes, and todays technology for the density power of battery's compared to gasoline sucks. But, lets say that in 10 years someone comes up with a major breakthrough and doubles the power density of the battery!!!!!! Wow!!! ..... It's then only an 11/1 ratio requiring now only 346.5 pounds of batteries to equal the power of 31.5 gallons of gasoline.

Lets say that in another 10 years after that they double that again!!!!! ....... Now its 172.2 pounds of batteries to equal 31.5 gallons of gasoline...... Talk about the Hindenburg if something shorts.

So..... it don't get me too excited yet, and I'm not holding my breath for anything significant to happen that will fill the sky's with manned electric vehicles any time soon, other than a few that could provide a quick thrill-ride.
 

gyrodude

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flyboard air

flyboard air

If you want to see something really wild google FlyBoard Air. A hint of whats to come?
 
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Yeah, it was a surprise to me when Mark started talking "volume". Guess we'd have to get old Archimedes to determine if an odd shaped "fuel" tank is legal by sinking it in a bathtub. Just reinforces my point about unintended consequences when regulations get written. Limiting range and flighttime were definitely two of the considerations when Part 103 was written. That's why I chose the Mitchell Wing B-10 as opposed to less efficient designs. Mark is focusing on "Ultralight" specifically because of regulations not allowing Sportplanes to have anything other than recip engines. He has been flying at Airventure electrically for the last few years and consistently gets 45-50 minutes per flight. And that is doing Touch-and-Goes in the Ultralight pattern. He likes to quote a study Mary Jones made for The Experimenter magazine showing that the average Ultralight flight was- drum roll- 45-50 minutes. I agree that 300 lbs of batteries doesn't make sense for Ultralights, but it sure would work in my Challenger ll Clipwing. Yes, that would make it a single place, but that is the vast majority of my "current" flying--- makes sense to me--- so hopefully the new regs- there we go again- getting rid of the Third Class Medical will open opportunities.
 
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