direct injection

raybotski

Newbie
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
7
Location
seattle wa
I,m following the weber thread and looking at engines in general as I seek to reenter the experimental catagory. The new four cycles are very exciting in weight, power, price and hopefully reliability. I have not seen anything yet about the two cycle direct injection engines.If they are what they claim aren,t they even lighter and simpler at least mechanically? The aircraft I,m looking at uses a 582 but is a superplane with a 912 and 80 hp.If I could get 80-90 hp na at 120lb for even 10 grand it would be a quantum leap. If I could do a complete overhaul with a new cylinder and piston or two and not have red hot exhaust valves and turbochargers testing there limits as I try to relax and enjoy the view,seems....like a wonderful thing. How far from the real world are we from this? Does this new tech have the potential to bring the two cycle roaring back as an aviation powerplant of choice?
 

Gyrodon1

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Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Messages
25
Location
Kernersville N.C.
Aircraft
Gyro N132DH
Total Flight Time
1/2 life
check ebay 2 912 engines one only 56hrs 100hp Smodel other looks like old drone motor 914 valve covers
 

raybotski

Newbie
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
7
Location
seattle wa
912

912

I used to have a 912 and I loved it.Bought it and a plane for 12k and now the engine installed and flying is, I,m guessing 20 to 22.I live in washington and the sales tax would be 2 grand.Buying an engine from out of town from a stranger would be hard to do. In my research I saw a comparison for the total operating cost of a 912 vs a 582 for 1500 hrs and doing the 300 hr crank replacement. the 912 was like 25 and the 582 was 30 thousand. Don,t get me wrong I,m not trying to be negative but My point is engines are getting better and cheaper in some places and so expensive in others that its slowing or stopping the whole show. The entire sled that the turboed weber is in with instuments oil tank turbo intercooler ets ets can be bought for ten grand! They must be paying like 4 or 5 for the whole 140 hp. Derated to 110 or whatever you think is appropriate and sit it next to a 914?? The rotax is great and I wish I could afford one just sayin.
 

phantom

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Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
1,417
Location
Eagle River
direct injection

I think 2 cycle engines with direct injection is the future light plane power plant. I have been useing evinrude etech engines on my boats for several years and I would trust them anywhere. I now have a 90 hp etech powerhead at my shop to experiment with but I am waiting to get my hands on one of skidoo's etech snomobile engines to see which one is eaiser to convert to aircraft use.
 

raybotski

Newbie
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
7
Location
seattle wa
evenrude

evenrude

I,ve been looking for you!! Not literally of course.Is the 90hp an inline? I looked at these online at this exact power level.
The outboard runs at 75 to 100 per cent power their whole life and that is exactly what an airplane does. They are not very pretty to look at but if you have a cowl who cares. I think if more of us could get our hands on some of these to play with progress would be rapid.In my totally, at this point speculative process,I was thinking you could even back up these black box wonders with a redundent carberator and a simple ignition and have two complete systems to make them more aircraft like. Pull a lever and the air supply to the intake is switched to a simple carb. Throw a switch and the ecm is off line and another coil fires up. Test before takeoff just like a mag check. Could be done for little weight or expense and allows yoo to revert to a simple two stroke if need be. The ninety horse is just that,no derating needed in fact might put out a little more and still be conservative. What does it weigh, and yes please post pictures. There is a very funny ad for the two stroke outboard pulling a 4 stroke backwards and sinking it,hilarious!!
 

phantom

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Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
1,417
Location
Eagle River
direct injection

the 90 hp etech is a three cylinder inline, the 115 is a v4 the 60 is a 2 cylinder inline, mercury also has a line of direct injection two cycle outboards starting at 75 hp.all outboard engines have a good flat pto end to mount a redrive.
 

raybotski

Newbie
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
7
Location
seattle wa
oil injection

oil injection

I guess one of the questions is the bearing and piston lubrication, however they did it and if laying the engine down horizontally affects that. Where is a good place to scout for a dead motor to have one to play with and what would you guess the block would weigh? I have to think the outboard is much tougher load wise than a sled engine but the availability of sleds, especially after the season is probably greater. I,m in seattle and will make some calls tomorrow just to see what some of the shops might have laying around that is trashed internally or what they do with terminal cases.
 

rfonseca

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
268
Location
Republic of Panama
Aircraft
Alouette III Helicopter; Dominator Gyro;
Total Flight Time
700+
Be careful with mercury two cycle outboards. I had them in a boat and they were not very reliable.
 

WHY

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Jun 13, 2005
Messages
4,384
Location
miami,oklahoma
Aircraft
Ercoupe and Cessna 150, 152, 172, 140, Aeronca,7ac, Citabria,Chief,Piper PA11,PA12
Total Flight Time
215
HI Ray

The development of the Weber MPE-750 is for sure slow, but still remains looking really good, I personally am going to try N/A first but do not know about the hp. I think it will be a very reliable engine but it is not going to make it in the 120 to 140 lb range when you consider the re-drive, oil tank, header tank, radiator, plumbing and wiring and exhaust system.

Tony
 

raybotski

Newbie
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
7
Location
seattle wa
adds up

adds up

Yes things get heavy fast.Some of it can be distributed so its not all on the mount of course. The weber does look really good and it looks like it will be flying soon. You guys really have a very productive forum here.I,ve been on one ride in a gyro ,but know the history pretty well and have a model pitcairne in the plastic collection. The hundred horse area is tough. It would be so cool to see it get cracked open with a light truly affordable powerplant.
 

WHY

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
4,384
Location
miami,oklahoma
Aircraft
Ercoupe and Cessna 150, 152, 172, 140, Aeronca,7ac, Citabria,Chief,Piper PA11,PA12
Total Flight Time
215
HI Ray

I have probably missed some of your earlier post, what gyro do you have in mind , a single place?

Tony
 

raybotski

Newbie
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
7
Location
seattle wa
gyro

gyro

I,m not gyro worthy at this time. I,m in the process of trying to buy a beaver rx550. This plane was sort of abandonened at an airport,that is the owner stopped paying rent and the airport says they own it now. Its a little micro-drama now but I knew the previous owner and he was an a&p and the plane is in great shape. Going forward with it implies replacing the 503 which is a great little motor with.... something more powerful. The mission I have for the plane is best served with a fixed wing but I have always had an interest in gyros and follow them and their developement and use. I,ve owned a merlin with a 912 and an rv6-a. My real interest now is some low and slow, rough field, trailerable possibly,float flying,one week camping excursions type things. The powerplant issue runs through the flying world more than anywhere of course. The rotor-plane would possibly work for me, sure sounds good.
 
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