John: No, I wasn't trying to start a fight w/ Vance. I don't agree 100% w/ everything what Vance writes here on the forum, but almost 100%. He has a strong personality w/ definite opinions, just like you do! It was (what I thought) a humorous poke @ you, WRT the current "flying gyroplanes (as well as all experimental aircraft & their varied powerplants) over large bodies of water" debating going on involving you, Vance, & others.
I make the following statements RE: flying over treacherous terrain, w/ the reminder that I am a big chicken as to flying where I cannot set down reasonable safely for both my aircraft & myself:
1. FLIGHT OVER LARGE BODIES OF H2O: I would surmise flying over Great Salt Lake is somewhat minimal as to dangerous flight. It is quite shallow in most parts, as well as providing just about the most amount of buoyancy there is on the planet for humans to bob in.
My guess is that Michael Burton considered these exact facts himself prior to making those flights w/ you, Kent, Cammie Patch, & whomever else may have been along to/from Idaho. Also, uppermost in his mind, I'm sure, are the precautions you mentioned above, such as a reliable, dependable, well-proven Rotax 4-stroke powerplant.
And, I believe your really fun gyroplane flights w/ MB & Cammie in Utah & Idaho, viewing the fantastic scenery usually reserved for certified airplanes & especially, turbine helicopters, has intoxicated your thinking that you will never have to answer to the Grim Reaper, because you know how to fly, even aerobatics!
Also, in that gaggle of gyroplanes, there was another gyroplane along, w/ four additional eyeballs to see if the other aircraft encountered difficulties, & could aid in the rescue efforts. Additional safety factor, like having a chase-boat along on a water crossing...
Emphasis here: Was it not after those flights you were on, that later, MB, as well as his business partner Marc Campbell, both suffered bodily injuries from crashing the exact same gyroplane TWICE near the summit of the Rocky Mountains? Flying an experimental gyroplane aircraft, using the venerable, dependable, reliable Rotax 4-stroke engine?!
Yes, the best care was taken in flying a non-certified gyroplane. Proper care & maintenance, The best engine the world depends on the most, that isn't US certified (but is in Europe).
Arguably one of the best gyroplane (MB) pilots there are, WRT flight experience, skill-levels in gyroplanes, common-sense, nice-guy type...and Mother Nature proved her forces of gravity, high winds, tall mountain peaks, & density altitudes, can STILL overcome all the preparation that a human can do to fly over treacherous terrain, and swats that tiny aircraft out of the air! Broken bones, back injuries, the Star Trek-inspired Caladus mangled, & the world hears of yet another gyroplane that is so dangerous to fly that it kills (or tries to kill) even the best, most-experienced, careful pilots!!!
Yes, there was also some pilot error involved in both accidents. Yes, even one possibly impaired due to marijuana in his system that blood testing revealed. Both accidents has passengers onboard. Easily could have been four deaths instead of major & minor injuries. At least, no sharks were in the vicinity to complicate their survival! Luckily for one of the accidents, a fisherman nearby the stream where they crashed into witnessed the crash & hiked up the mountain to gain enough cell signal to call for help for them.
The huge boulders in that stream would have ensured their deaths had they collided into one of them. W/out that fisherman's help, they likely would have died for being in sad shape to get out to critical medical care on their own. The female passenger couldn't walk out due to a broken leg & the other maybe impaired enough that his judgement abilities clouded the possibilities invoving going for help for both of them. I do not know what physical injuries he may have suffered.
I wouldn't have flown over Great Salt Lake, if it were me. I've flown over the marshlands of it near where the Bear River flows into it, while buzzing around the Brigham City airport during the Rotors Over The Rockies events in the past.
Even those swampy areas would likely refuse me to retrieve my aircraft if I went down there, as would GSL. Road access to the lake is extremely scarce. Short of a helicopter retrieval (which would be a huge expense...possibly more than the cost of my gyro, making it senseless), one would need a swamp buggy w/ huge capacity to get to the scene & be able to bring back a pile of wreckage.
Add to these thoughts, MB told me directly that the FAA & other federal agencies require wreckage removal. One cannot just leave it to age under the sun as many times has been done in the past history of flying machines. So, not only would I suffer the loss of the value of my now-wrecked machine, the retrieval costs would likely be that amount again, & then some! Suddenly, my flying over hostile terrain has cost me 2X, OR MORE, the value of my aircraft. That is not even considering if I become injured or killed, to compound the problems afterwards.
I maintain life insurance (for my spouse's benefit) that covers me while flying my experimental aircraft, as well as 24/7 accidental death. That mitigates the financial loss to her, but doesn't help me w/ extraction costs & destruction of my aircraft in situations such as we're discussing, since hull coverage is virtually non-existent for gyroplanes.
Apparently a few gyroplanes types can still buy it, but @ rates many, many times the airplane rates. Even liability-only insurance for gyroplanes @ approximately $3K annually (OBSCENE, in my opinion) is cost prohibitive to the average joe.
I limit my flying time over hostile terrain. I'll fly near the edges & peer into the abyss instead from above! That is all I need to be reminded of that BIG YELLOW STREAK running down my backbone! It is thrilling enough to peer into that gaping maw w/out soaring full-speed ahead down it's throat.
In the back of my mind is Ben S.'s mantra of his gyro flying out over the Pacific Ocean in California, that if the engine has been running normally for @ least 5 minutes, knowing the fuel supply is operating normally & the engine is also, then I would venture out from the fringes over hostile terrain.
Same for the wetlands alongside the Spanish Fork airport near the Interstate & Provo airport, where they are the fringes of freshwater Utah Lake, in the Provo Bay portion.
Flying down low over that area (about 50') I saw the many pools of standing water, w/ submerged logs & other swampy debris in them. Depth was hard to tell, but many of them appeared to be deeper than a man's height. It was after observing this that I had the discussion w/ MB about being required to remove an aircraft wreckage.
I've met Cammie Patch @ her hangar-home airstrip east of Boise. She is a very pleasant person to talk w/. I recommend her flight school to anyone who'll listen to me, like fellow chapter members here locally, even though I've not taken training w/ her or her CFIs on staff. I make sure to relate her requirement for training is to do it in one fell swoop, as the military does. She is also former military. So gyro-wanna be pilots cannot go to her training for a few hrs. here & there, a weekend @ a time, or a week's vacation here & there.
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