Decisions,decisions! NEED FEEDBACK.

Allantat

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
202
Location
Fresno,Ca.
Aircraft
Bensen Gyroglider in the 70's followed by several Bensens B-8m's with 72/90 HP Macs.
Total Flight Time
400+ Gyro Time. 100 Fixed wing.
Following a 20 year hiatus from gyro flying it's time once again to slip the surly bonds of earth! I last flew a gyro in 1984 at Oshkosh when Martin Hollman and I hauled the prototype Bumble Bee from California to Wisconsin. Life got in the way of flying as it does but it's now time to rekindle the flame and head for the blue! The dream to fly again never left and living under the downwind leg of the Fresno Air Terminal didn,t help much either. "You guys are teasing me floating over my backyard while I'm on the ground"!

I discovered this forum in July of last year..wasted no time in joining and have been an avid reader several times a day! It certainly helped maintain the spark. There is an abundance of knowledge here and a lot of folks who share the same passion.
I'd like to toss this into the mix and get some feedback from. So...here we go!

I hold a Private Pilots license SEl with a Rotorcraft rating. Obviously since I haven't flow in a number of years my medical has expired. During the 20 year flying break age has a way of sneaking up on you and there have been some health problems that I,m sure would preclude getting a medical, or at least make it VERY VERY expensive in proving that I'm ok. I've been following the development of Larry Neal's Butterfly. Built as an Ultralight no license or medical required. Pretty simple! Now, Sport Pilot has entered the picture and your medical can be your drivers license as long as you have never been denied an FAA medical. I have NEVER been denied but am certainly aware that my medical condition would get someones attention. Governor Arnold "The Terminator" seems to think it's OK for me to operate a car. Several FAA folks pretty much told me to follow the "Don't ask,don't tell" policy. Fill out the Sport Pilot paperwork and "go have fun". The Butterfly seems like a good choice..but then again so does the Monarch Butterfly...certainly not an Ultralight! Given that both machines are single place and 100% of my flying will be done in the countryside which one do I build? Is the extra $4 Thousand dollars worth it just to gain 7 Mph? (Butterfly top speed 63mph vs Monarch top speed of 70mph. Since the Monarch uses the Rotax 582 there is more hardware to haul around not to mention overall increased weight plus radiators... thermostats...and leaks......more links in the chain to get Mr. Murphy's attention! I've never flown a Rotax 503...only 72 and 90 Macs plus the Bumble Bee's Kawasaki 440 and a VERY anemic VW I test flew for a friend! For those of you with experience between the 90 Mac vs Rotax 503...how does the 503 stack up? 90 Mac vs Rotax 582?
As Captain Kirk on Star Trek used to say..."More power Scotty" Would the Rotax 582 really make that much difference? It certainly does when it comes to $$$'s!!!!
On one shoulder the little voice says... "Stay under the radar...keep it legal...keep it light and simple" and go the Ultralight route. Then there is Capt. Kirk on the other shoulder going..."Give me more power" What would you do?
 
Allan,

Can't speak from personal experience, but there seems to be widespread agreement that for the kind of flying you just described, flying a really light, nimble gyro is way more fun. A guy hangered near me had both a Mac-90-powered Bensen, and a Sport Copter Lightning with a 503. He said the Bensen was a faster climber, but I always saw him flying the 503 Lightning.

Jim Vanek at Sport Copter has a Vortex with a 582, and a Lightning with a 503, and flies both regularly. The Lightning weighs 252, the Vortex with pod, prerotator, full instruments and electrical system weighs 400. He describes them as completely different experiences, even though the underlying airframes are identical.
 
You never told us how much you weight. That makes a big difference on its own.

Other differences between the two machines is, to make the butterfly legal it has no pre rotator. Add one and it is over the legal limit. It also has pretty much no extras or frills. Add anything to it that is not already on it and your over the limit.

Also the butterfly with 503 will likely turn into a dog performance wise if you start adding a bunch of stuff to it.

the 582 Monarch will haul a lot more weight... if you weight more than 200 lbs I would strongly lean towards the Monarch. If you got to have a pre rotator and better blades - the Butterfly comes with low performance blades that are easy to handstart where the Monarch comes with high performance Dragon wings blades that are very difficult to handstart.

In a nutshell, if your not too heavy and will leave the gyro in stock form, and you are okay with a low rate of climb then go the easy and cheaper route and go with the ultralight. If you want a hot rod as far as rate of climb goes, and a gyro that will haul more weight in people and assesories then go with the Monarch.

The difference in top speed is more based on trying to stay ultralight legal which means the Butterfly has to go less than 70 mph, where as the Monarch is free to go much much faster. In real life both gyros will become very uncomfortable in wind blast to go much over 60 mph and I bet that both gyros would do 75+ mph wide open.

The decision horsepower wise is more related to how much weight you plan to fly, not how fast you want to go.
 
Hey Allan,

Looks like you are just a little ways down Hwy 99 from us here in the Sacramento area. You should head up for the next PRA-5 meeting on 12 March at Nut Tree in Vacaville.
 
Ron...Paul...John. Appreciate the feedback RE: the decision between the Butterfly and the Monarch Butterfly. Don,t know what I was thinking when I referenced the $$$ cost and speed between the 2 machines. DUH! It is all about hauling my 170 lbs around here in the San Joaquin Valley where summertime temperatures more often than not exceed 100+. I can see where performance with a 503 would be marginal...especially with any added "goodies" Ron..your right. I have yet to see a gyro owner that didn't add something to his machine.
PAUL. Sorry to hear you lost the latest broadcasting gig. Since we share the same profession..I can certainly relate. My 90 MAC with a Troyer 50x28 prop and Rotordyne blades would flat get upstairs quickly!
JOHN.I'd love to join you guys at the Nut Tree some day. My 1st Gyroglider ride (wooden blades) was with PRA 5 and Marion Springer when they were based in Tracy. For a while PRA 5 held fly-ins at an old crop duster strip on the east side of Hwy 99 in Turlock. I have flown with Bob Aspegren at Turlock and also El Mirage.My decision is gettting a little clearer between the Butterfly and the Monarch Butterfly. I wanted the BIG BOY all along! Now the licensing issue? Do I follow the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" suggestion in getting a Sport Pilot ticket which would be a downgrade since I hold a PPL with Rotorcraft endorsement? Thanks.
 
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