Crazy idea - handlebars?

The main idea was we had noticed students during their single seat transition if they got off one wheel higher than the other it was usually because they were tensing their shoulders (anxious). As such having a single stick and throttle in other hand tended to make them turn right. So having the t-bar meant if they tensed they tensed equally with both left and right which tended to keep them more balanced. Small effect but every little thing we would do helped just a little bit. Never saw a machine smashed up at that club - and there would be 8-12 students every training weekend.
I've been instructing since 1985 (powered and glider, fixed wing and rotary, with anywhere from one to four wheels, sometimes one or more skids, taildragger or nosewheel) and never saw that problem. No smashed up aircraft here either.

I just haven't ever detected that particular problem.
 
I have an aversion to non-standard control schemes
Me too! Most aircraft control stations have evolved to their current layout because the system works. If I fly a Pitts, Citabria, or a single seat or tandem gyro, the stick is controlled with my right hand and the power lever is in my left. If I fly a Cessna, Beech (except T34), etc. from the left seat, the yoke is in my left hand and power is controlled with my right.

These kinds of control setups are not confusing and, except in the very early stages of learning, don't trigger negative transfer behavior.

Even something as strange as the ground steering system on a Bensen type gyro is not a problem after a few minutes.

I suspect, after a few hours of experience, the OP will appreciate the standard control station layout
 
I can certainly learn to use one in whatever format it exists. But I will most definitely not prefer it. I have a lifetime of muscle memory of right handed throttle control, be it my e bike, my motorcycles, various snowmobiles, atvs and water craft, my Ford 4x4 tractor, the Cessna 172 I’m currently training in, etc. Right is throttle for me.

I am certainly open to doing it a better way and am very open to being taught, but when I’m learning from scratch at this stage of life, the “better way” should be based on better ergonomics or function, and “economy of motion,” not just convention. A handlebar with right handed twist throttle which can be set to one rpm level - to my thinking - represents the highest economy of motion, for me.

But again, I’m open to logical thinking and being educated regarding how a right handed twist throttle may be suboptimal from a functional perspective.
 
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I think you'll find as a right-handed person that you will be making more and finer adjustments with the cyclic than with the throttle and will appreciate having two axis control in your dominant hand. You can let us know in due course.
 
I think you'll find as a right-handed person that you will be making more and finer adjustments with the cyclic than with the throttle and will appreciate having two axis control in your dominant hand. You can let us know in due course.
And in all likelihood, after a few lessons under the tutelage of a gyro CFI in a “real” gyro, all my analysis paralysis will evaporate into the same thin hot air I’m so full of lol!

Thanks again for humoring a n00b full of thoughts and questions but no real world experience.
 
you will be making more and finer adjustments with the cyclic than with the throttle and will appreciate having two axis control in your dominant hand
This is the type of explanation I needed for my addled brain. Thanks again.

I guess I’m a contrarian; my brain doesn’t accept appeals to convention and authority. It needs to know the logic behind an answer.
 
I believe that any stick that requires the pilot's wrist to be horizontal puts more strain on the hand. Yes, this goes for the Bensen overhead T-stick as well as the Aussie "T" joystick.

Rest your hand on your thigh, first palm-down and then with a vertical fist (like holding a beer stein). For me, at least, there's a small extra effort to twist my hand palm-down. I fly conventional and overhead stick (the latter with R.H. twist throttle per motorcycle). The horizontally-aligned overhead is a bit more tiring.

The T-joystick puzzles me. Our usual rotorcraft control technique is to rest our hand on our thigh (beer-stein fashion) and make routine control inputs with wrist motion only. This prevents overt-control. I can't imagine how you'd make as fine a control input with a "T" stick. It seems to me that your inputs would have to come from arm motions -- which are generally larger and less precise than wrist motions.
 
rest our hand on our thigh & make routine control inputs with wrist motion only. This prevents overt-control. I can't imagine how you'd make as fine a control input with a "T" stick. It seems to me that your inputs would have to come from arm motions -- which are generally larger and less precise than wrist motions
Good call, great explanation. That make sense from a fine muscle control perspective.

I did notice on slow speed maneuvers with flaps fully extended I was having trouble tensing up and gripping too tight on the 172’s yoke, and the plane was slowly wagging the nose left and right. When I let go of the yoke for a moment it stopped, and then I just held lightly with just two fingers and that slow oscillation ceased. So I can understand how larger muscle group inputs, in this case my unsupported hands on the yoke, can cause pilot induced oscillations. Whereas small muscle movements in the wrist with the arm supported on the thigh would solve that.

And again, fine cyclic control with the dominant hand is more important here than throttle control.

On a bike, a quick blip of the throttle can often save it from a fall; “when in doubt, throttle out.” I doubt this is the case with a gyro throttle as thrust response via the prop from increased rpm isn’t as fast, but I obviously have a lot to learn.
 
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I was having trouble tensing up and gripping too tight on the 172’s yoke, and the plane was slowly wagging the nose left and right
Hi Brian
I don't understand what you are describing. A yaw response with the pitch and roll control?
Jim
 
Hi Brian
I don't understand what you are describing. A yaw response with the pitch and roll control?
Jim
I’m still not certain what exactly was happening. We were at 3500 feet, flaps fully extended, around 70 knots, practicing slow speed maneuvers. The CFI wanted me to see how sluggish and mushy it responded at slower speeds with flaps fully extended, in anticipation of eventual landing practice. I think I was just gripping the yoke too tight at the time, and it started slowly swaying. I’m not even clear now if it was yaw or roll to be honest (in my mind it seemed to be yaw but it could well have been roll). I let go of the yoke and it stopped, grabbed it again and it started again. Let go and the CFI said to just use two fingers and hold the yoke lightly. And it stopped.
 
Hi Brian
I don't understand what you are describing. A yaw response with the pitch and roll control?
Jim
No just normal bank. Think Bensen overhead stick (with t -handle but on top of the cyclic). The reason we did it was people were tending to pull to the right when tense. We worked out they were tensing on the controls and you are holding the stick with one hand when they would do this they would pull to the right. Putting on the T bar meant they were (if getting tense) pulling straight back not to one side.
 
It is not set up in countersteering style. It is nothing more than a standard joystick with a tee bar across the top with a twist grip. Function is identical to a joystick. Hundreds of thousands of hours have been flown with this setup with no known complaints about banking.
It is a gyrocopter, so the norm for a helicopter is a bit irrelevant. What is relevant is it is the norm for motorcycles which is what many (probably most) of these single seat pilots were/are "transitioning" from.
However, I do know one fellow who has the twist grip on left to free his dominant right hand to throw stones at feral camels etc;)
Did you ever hear of the bloke down here who had a semi automatic set up on his gyro to shoot pigs?
 
Relaxed grip is key.

G.A. airplanes grew steering wheels after WWII -- possibly to make the anticipated rush of newbies into GA feel at home, in a car-like cockpit. Or maybe to better accommodate the hoped-for influx of female pilots wearing long skirts.

Whatever the reason, I think the typical airplane steering wheel can be a step backward in achieving fine control. If it's located high enough that your arms are floating free, then you have the same problem as those flying a T-handled joystick -- you must move your whole arm to make inputs.

If OTOH the wheel is low enough that you can rest your forearm and hold a lower corner of the wheel, then you have that nice, precise wrist action available.

Of course, fixed-wing control inputs tend to be larger than rotorcraft, so the harm (if any) of whole-arm movement is less.

Before giving an intro gyro lesson, I used sit down facing the student and have him/her hold a forearm up between us. This was our "pretend" joystick. I'd grab the student's wrist lightly with my fingertips, to demonstrate the gentle touch I wanted the student use once I handed over the controls at altitude. This worked pretty well in most cases.
 
The whole-arm thing also makes your arm a mass that responds to turbulence, updrafts, etc , sometimes putting in unintended control inputs.
 
The whole-arm thing also makes your arm a mass that responds to turbulence, updrafts, etc , sometimes putting in unintended control inputs.
When we did surgery on the tiny bones, ligaments, nerves etc. of the ankle, feet and toes, we always had at least one finger of one hand steadied on the OR table or the surgical drape over the limb. There was no way to make the fine movements necessary for such delicate surgery without steadying your hand on something.
 
When we did surgery on the tiny bones, ligaments, nerves etc. of the ankle, feet and toes, we always had at least one finger of one hand steadied on the OR table or the surgical drape over the limb. There was no way to make the fine movements necessary for such delicate surgery without steadying your hand on something.
Sign writers would do something similar they'd have a stick with a pad on the end which they would put on window or wall they were painting on (not on the painted bits) and rest their hand they were painting on to get a smoother curve. When I went solo in the glider the dual stick would be either side of you so you'd have the hands on both sticks. It wasn't a problem, probably had a similar effect.
 
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